How Income and Property Taxes Work in Your Land Business 2021 (LA 1433)

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Transcript: Steven Jack Butala: Steve and Jill here. Jill DeWit: Hi. Steven Jack Butala: Welcome to the Land Academy Show, entertaining land investment talk. I’m Steven Jack Butala. Jill DeWit: And I’m Jill DeWit, broadcasting from sunny Southern California and awesome, cool Arizona. Steven Jack Butala: Today, Jill and I talk about how income and property taxes work in your land business in 2021. Why? Because all week this week, Jill and I were talked into talking about the most boring things possible in the land business. What’s not boring in the land business, making hoards of money. Jill DeWit: Boy, am I excited about this show. Steven Jack Butala: If I could write a topic and no one had any say in it, specifically our customer service people, here’s the topic. This is how much money you’re going to make next month. That’s a whole topic. Jill DeWit: Oh, this is good. Do you know what mine would be? Steven Jack Butala: All you got to do are these three things and that’s it. That’s a whole topic. But no, we have to talk about taxes today. Jill DeWit: Wait, wait, wait. I want one. Mine would be, this is how to replace your income times two and cut your hours in half. I will show you. Steven Jack Butala: Here’s another one. What to do with all the time that you’re going to have when you’re rich. Jill DeWit: Or what boat works best in X conditions? Steven Jack Butala: I like those. Let’s take a look in Jill’s garage. That’s another show. Jill DeWit: That’s right. That’s perfect. You know what’s funny? Seth did this a couple, like a year ago. Seth bought a new big house in Michigan, right? I don’t know if you saw this, Steven. Steven Jack Butala: No. Jill DeWit: Okay. So Seth, bless his heart, got a new house in Michigan and he gave a tour of the house walking around like a selfie tour on his phone. And I’m like, this is hilarious. And I bet a lot of people were very intrigued by that though. He went through the living room, the kitchen, you could see the kids’ toys in the corner. It was the funniest thing. And he goes downstairs, like it’s a Michigan basement, and that’s where his office is and it’s really nice, and he shows the layout and everything. And I thought that was funny. So I’m wondering, should we do that, when you talked about the garage thing? We don’t need to see the garage, but I don’t know, maybe somebody would like to see the garage. It’s kind of funny. Steven Jack Butala: Yeah. The garage I’m okay with. Jill DeWit: Okay. Steven Jack Butala: Because there will be 16 not so inexpensive cars in there when we’re done. Jill DeWit: We’ll work on that later. Okay. So did you set me up for the question? Steven Jack Butala: So before we get into it, let’s take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It’s free. And if you’re a Land Academy member, please join us on Discord. Jill DeWit: I got so excited getting off-topic because we’re both avoiding this topic. Steven Jack Butala: Actually, I should have said this before we started being negative, but I can save you some money on this episode here, I think Jill DeWit: Bob wrote, “Hey, Land Academy folks, we’re wanting to bring on someone per task or on a part-time basis to help us get our mail out consistently. My wife, Carly, and I have scaled our business over the past year and it’s currently more than we can keep up. If you have a knack for data, but don’t like the rest of the business, let me know and we can chat further. Experience with RealQuest, compiling comps, pricing, and data scrubbing is a must. Here’s my cell number. Evan, if you want, you can text me for a faster response. Thanks.” There you go. There’s Bob’s job posting for the board. Steven Jack Butala: Bob, I just posted this exact job, exact job on the job board on Land Academy or Land Investors, so touché. If you get a good person, let me know, Bob. Today’s topic, how income and property taxes work in your land business in 2021. This is the meat of the show. Let’s start with the easy one, property taxes. When you buy a piece of property, I don’t care what it is unless you’re a nonprofit or, yeah, unless you’re a nonprofit that I know of, you’re going to pay property taxes. Did you know non-profits don’t pay any property tax? So if you have a big, huge, massive nonprofit healthcare system, they don’t pay any taxes on all that real estate. Jill, Scottsdale Memorial is a nonprofit. Jill DeWit: Churches. Steven Jack Butala: So all that prime real estate in Old Town Scottsdale is tax-free. Jill DeWit: Yeah. Churches, right? That too. Steven Jack Butala: Yeah. Any place of worship, quote-unquote, but those are non-profits. So you can’t have a for-profit church, you’re going to pay tax. So, Jill, all these properties that we own, constantly in a big, huge cycle, do you pay the property taxes? Jill DeWit: Nope. Steven Jack Butala: Never. Oh, my God. You guys are in the real estate business and you don’t pay your property taxes. Isn’t that a sin? Isn’t that illegal? Jill DeWit: No. Steven Jack Butala: No, no, and no. You pay the property taxes when you sell it. So when you buy property, if everything’s correct, whether you’d buy it through self-close or through a title, the taxes that are owed on the property should be zero in a perfect world. Often, they’re not. Often, one of the reasons you’re getting a smoking deal is because there’s a bunch of back tax properties and you assume it. So the way property taxes work very simply are as they stay with the property, just like a license plate stays with the car in California. But in Arizona, it doesn’t, it stays with you. You never sell a car and then that guy gets to keep the plate. Why would you ever keep a license plate with a car? What if you’re a big, huge criminal, do all this criminal stuff, and then you sell your car to Joe Schmo and Joe Schmo gets in trouble? It’s another backwards thing that California does. I’ll never understand it. Here’s another one. Did you know that if you have a pink slip or a title to your car, why they call it pink I don’t know because it’s blue, and there’s no notarization required? I just sold our last boat in California, signed my name, and sent it in the FedEx. Nobody’s checking. It’s just ready for fraud. Anyway, property taxes stay with the property. So if I sell a property that’s got a bunch of back taxes on it, a house or a piece of land or an office building, and I sell it to Jill, I deed it over to Jill. Congratulations, Jill, you have a massive amount of liability. That’s one of the reasons you have an escrow agent that does a HUD-1, that calls the county, prorates the taxes, make sure everything’s okay. If you do a self-close, you should be doing that yourself, checking on the back taxes. We don’t pay taxes. We would have to have a full-time person, that tax bills would come, they would research it. We would sign a check, and it would take … So what we do is we just put them in a box, literally in a banker’s box, and when the properties sell, that’s when we take a look at it. Jill DeWit: Right. Steven Jack Butala: It’s part of the person who sells it his job, is to make sure the taxes are all set up. And sometimes it’s appropriate for us to sell properties and disclose, hey, there’s a bunch of back taxes on this property. We’ll just knock it off the price and then how about you figure it out? And that happens a lot actually for desert-type lower-priced properties. So, if you owe a lot of property, don’t worry about it. But what you never want to do is sell a piece of property without disclosing that. That’s not right. It’s all going to come catch up with you anyway. They’re going to find out a year later when they get the tax bill, the new person, and they’re going to say, “What the heck?” You’re going to cause big problems for yourself. Jill DeWit: Yeah. One of the things that you do too, that we do in our postings, which is really nice, you want your buyers to know what their taxes are going to be every year. That’s just a nice thing to do. So if there’s any taxes that are due, if you intend to not do them, put it in there, or let them know too, hey, it’s all going to be caught up at time of transfer. Perfect. Put that in there and then let them know what their annual taxes are going to be, is really helpful. Steven Jack Butala: So here’s the other thing, another thing with property taxes. After a certain amount of time, and it’s usually five years, you don’t want to let them lapse five years because then the county is going to start going through a foreclosure process or whatever statutory process or procedure is outlined in that state or that county. And eventually, you could lose the property. So you want to make sure that it’s not that old. And you want to make sure that, in most states, that are all states that I’m aware of, but each year has an amount due. So you can, but you have to be really careful if you are not paying the entire amount, if there’s three years of back taxes, you really should pay the entire amount or pay nothing because they won’t apply it to the right place. If there’s $2,000 of back taxes and you send them a $500 check, and they don’t apply it to the oldest tax year, they could foreclose even though you’re paying. I’ve seen this. Jill and I have done … Remember that deal, that big house, Jill, we did and that they’re just about to foreclose on it, the county was, with all the palm trees in the back? Jill DeWit: Yeah. We had to hurry and get the money in. Yeah. Steven Jack Butala: Yeah. Because they were going to foreclose on the property. We had like a week to solve that for her. And that was all mismanaged and not set up right, and we had to really go into the county and say, “Guys, come on. This is it. We’re buying this house. We’re going to solve it all right now.” So there’s some little caveats. If you have any real questions about this, just email us at support@lantaacademy.com, and we’ll help you out. Jill DeWit: Right. Steven Jack Butala: Now, income tax. Jill is famous for saying, get 10 deals under your belt. Don’t worry about filing an LLC. Just put them in your name, make sure you want to be in the business. And once you knock those first 10 out and it’s profitable for you, and it makes sense and you want to move forward, go get an LLC in some state. It doesn’t have to be in the state that you’re in. There’s no real circumstances that you would ever want to do an LLC in California. That’s for a different show. All of ours are in Arizona for a reason. And once you have that LLC setup, the IRS and the local taxing authority is going to expect that you’re going to file a tax return the following year, the taxable year. So unless you file some paperwork that says, you know what, I filed the LLC, but now I changed my mind. I don’t really need it or want it. You have to do that in California or else you’ll get charged forever, up to a thousand bucks, probably around a thousand dollars a year. In Arizona, they don’t care. It’s just so dormant after a while that they just turn it off for you if you don’t file tax return. All right. So now you’ve got an LLC, and you’re making a bunch of money, you got to pay taxes on it. If your LLC is in Arizona and you’re buying a lot of property in California, do you have to pay California tax? Yeah, you do. You are a resident of California. Do you have to pay Arizona tax? My opinion is no. So that gets kind of tricky. Don’t just take my advice. Please, really, I’m going to get email and stuff. If you have five accountants in the room, you’re going to have five opinions about how to do this. Jill DeWit: That was going to be my point. You need to find someone that thinks like you, you can communicate, and you work together and it may not be the first accountant that you call. My best advice is, find someone that you know, who has an established relationship with an accountant, they say this guy and I connect, he’s got it all figured out. I mean, he tells me stuff every year and finds things that I don’t even know about kind of thing. He’s good. So someone kind of in the business, in the industry, that I would totally go that route. And it’s just one of those things. It’s like, I guess, with attorneys and different things too, you just got to interview people and see if they’re a good fit and see how they do things. I’m sure there’s attorneys out there that, not attorneys, but accountants that you may not agree with because you might think, this guy pulls too many things that I’m not comfortable with. I want to make sure I’m paying the right stuff. You wouldn’t go with that guy. You’re probably going to on both extremes. Find the one in the middle that you connect with. Steven Jack Butala: I’m assuming too, listener, that you don’t want to pay taxes and that you think this is kind of a wrench in your life and that you disagree with all of it. And I learned recently because of this election year and this COVID, which seemed to really separate the country, you’re either on one side or the other, there’s a substantial number of people, let’s say half, and I didn’t know this, but half of my friends were like this, that believe in paying taxes and that taxes are good. And we have a better life because we pay a lot of taxes, and our roads are at work, and our politicians to get paid. So I just don’t happen to be from that camp. So if you are, you should really not listen to this any longer. You should just go pay as much taxes as you can and pat yourself on the back, have your spouse pat yourself on the back and say you guys are tax-paying citizens, and we love each other. Jill DeWit: Okay. Everyone, everyone, everyone. Steven Jack Butala: This show is about … And it’s not about how to rip the government off because that’s not what I’m going to say either. This is about how to responsibly structure your company and pay the taxes that are owed and minimize, where possible, within the limits of the law, your taxes. Jill DeWit: I got to say, that actually took a lot longer into the show than I thought it was going to be for you to get that out. When I sat down and I look at this topic, I’m like, oh, here we go. This is going to be good. Steven Jack Butala: The Internal Revenue Service publishes what’s called the IRC, the Internal Revenue Code. And if you ever seen one printed out, I went to school on this, there was no such thing as the internet back then, it’s two or three inches thick. And if everybody was just a W2 employee, you worked at Walmart, or for a consulting firm, or as an accountant, or whatever, then the IRC would be about six pages and it would say, your tax rate is X. Here’s the graph or the grid. And your employer is going to withhold your money. And at the end of the tax year, you’re going to get a W2. And it’s going to say you get X amount back. I always want to be a fly on the wall if somebody thought this up. Let’s tax them all. There were no payroll taxes, which is what I’m talking about, before World War II. It all started to fund a war. For a brief period, during the Civil War, it happened too. But everybody said, and that there’s an on both sides said, there’s no way I’m paying taxes. Yeah. It was all funded by property taxes, but that’s the topic for the different story. So some geniuses got together in Washington, D.C., and said we should tax people on the money that they make. We should keep some of their paycheck. This is before paychecks. This is dollars. I know. Well, how are we going to get somebody to file a tax return? That’s ludicrous. Well, how about we withhold their money as they get it, and to make sure that they file a tax return, we’re going to withhold more than they owe. And then we’ll just give it back to a little bit back to him in April. And I guess everybody said, okay, this sounds like a good idea to me. Jill DeWit: I’ll take Steve rant 101 for 500. Steven Jack Butala: So they had the volume of the Internal Revenue Code, it might be volumes now, I don’t know, is all about people like us, who own small businesses or businesses and the rules for filing these taxes, and when you can depreciate stuff, and when you can’t, and what you should buy and what you shouldn’t buy, and how it gets treated from a tax standpoint, all in the name of making it complicated so you have to hire an accountant. And Jill said earlier, this good accountant that you get along with is going to look at the Internal Revenue Code, they’re going to look at the code, they’re going to look at you, and they’re going to say, “Whatever is ordinary and necessary in this person’s business,” and it that’s the exact phrase, “Is this ordinary and necessary, then it’s a business expense.” Jill DeWit: Right. Steven Jack Butala: Is it ordinary and necessary for Jill’s cosmetics to be a business expense because we have this show? I would argue yes. Somebody might argue no. Jill DeWit: How about my computer, my camera, my lights, my desk, my chair? Steven Jack Butala: So there’s all these new opportunities you have to increase your business expense as long as it’s ordinary and necessary. And now I’m not joking, I’m actually really true and honest in saying this. I’m very serious. You don’t want to cheat the government. You don’t need to. You should find things and expand your business in a way that where you can legally expense items that you need to use in your business to keep it going. And so there’s a lot of opportunity. You buy a piece of dirt and you sell it on the internet, there’s all kinds of stuff that needs to happen. You got to get drone shots. You have to maybe hire people from a consulting standpoint to tell you what it’s worth. There’s a lot of things that go on. And so if you’re using half your house as office space, there’s an opportunity there. And on and on and on, these are all legitimate things that need to be documented and put into a system so that it reduces your ultimate taxable income. Can you do that as those first 10 deals? Yeah, you can, as long as you keep track and you have to file for a … What you’re really running is a sole proprietorship, and that’s from a legal standpoint, that’s got the same treatment or virtually the same for tax purposes, not legal purposes as an LLC. So keep track of all that stuff. It’s actually really easy now to keep track of it because it’s on your bank account. And also, this is my opinion, keep it separate, don’t co-mingle. After those first 10 deals, that LLC can have its own bank account and should. And you shouldn’t use that bank account for personal stuff and vice versa. You shouldn’t use your personal bank account for business stuff, because it’s too hard to keep track. Jill DeWit: That is the one, if you take away one nugget, just take away that. Set it up. And then at the end of the year, when you’re talking to your accountant and he says that should really be over there, and that should be over there, you make those changes next year. And that’s easy. Steven Jack Butala: Right. Jill DeWit: That’s really good advice. Steven Jack Butala: Here’s a good bit of advice from somebody with some gray hair. Jill DeWit: Not me. Steven Jack Butala: Jill and I take, in every company that we have, we have a few of them, a few dormant ones like everybody, a few dormant LLCs and a few very active ones, a couple that are very, very active, the main companies, in those LLCs, we take a salary. And it’s nothing to write home about, but it’s a W2 salary where we pay payroll taxes, as we should. Let’s just call it an industry-standard salary, she and I, and we all shook hands a long time ago that it’s equal, it’s the same amount. And so there’s withholding, the state of Arizona because everything’s in Arizona gets paid, and we file a tax return. And we never get money back because at the end of the year, the land that we buy and sell and the offers to owners, revenue and expense, and all this stuff, when you put it all together, we owe taxes. So the money that we would’ve gotten back gets charged against the amount that we pay. Jill DeWit: Right. Steven Jack Butala: But you still … The state and the feds are bent on withholding. And I have personal friends who have committed suicide over not paying payroll … They owned restaurants and stuff, and just said, “I’m not going to pay my payroll taxes.” They’ve got all these employees. For decades, never paid payroll taxes, and somebody showed up at their door. So you do not … And with ADP and companies like that now, it’s all automatic. Go ahead, Jill. It’s too easy. Jill DeWit: Now you’re going dark. I don’t mean to scare you. So, rewind. Rewind. It’s okay, I promise. You know what? Steven Jack Butala: I’m sorry, Jill. Jill DeWit: You have shared so much good information already. I should have cut you off a few minutes ago. Just kidding. Steven Jack Butala: No, I don’t think you are now. Jill DeWit: No, yeah, I’m not. This is a Friday show. [crosstalk 00:21:10] I want everyone to have a good weekend. I don’t want anybody to be panicking. So it’s the beginning of a new year. We’re trying to set you up right. Don’t worry, you got this. And happy to be doing this today. Five days a week, you can find us right here on the Land Academy Show. Steven Jack Butala: Join us next week for another interesting episode. You are not alone in your real estate ambition. Just get some good professional advice. There’s tons of free stuff out on the internet. There’s podcasts like this devoted to this whole thing, so just get some good advice. Jill DeWit: There you go. Thank you for tuning in. We hope you find our content valuable and we do appreciate your support. If you haven’t already, please check out our YouTube channel and hit the subscribe button, and give us feedback on the shows you love. We are Steve and Jill, information … Steven Jack Butala: … and inspiration … Jill DeWit: … to buy undervalued property. —————————————- If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to email me directly at steven@BuWit.com. The BuWit Family of Companies include: https://BuWit.com https://offers2owners.com https://landinvestors.com https://landacademy.com https://landpin.com https://parcelfact.com https://countywise.com https://deedperfect.com https://ownersdata.com https://houseacademy.com I would like to think it’s entertaining and informative and in the end profitable. And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts.
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Land Academy PRO is the brainchild of founders Steven Jack Butala and Jill DeWit. Designed at the request of Land Academy members who are ready for a higher level, we’re excited to continue to provide the tools and support needed by professional investors.

Each level comes with a preset amount of included data, Concierge Mail service, and postage. For example, the Green level includes 6,000 units of completed-for-you mail completely out the door at no extra cost to you.

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Green

$10,060

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Silver

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Gold

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Platinum

$23,650

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Black

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6,000 mailers 9,000 mailers 12,000 mailers 15,000 mailers 18,000 mailers
PatLive introduction at no cost We will help you establish your first script and get PatLive set up on your behalf to answer your phones.
$500 value $500 value $500 value $500 value $500 value
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Subtotal: $8,550 value $8,550 value $9,550 value $12,050 value $12,050 value
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Green

$10,060

per Month

Concierge Data+ (with data) Included mailers each month (data + concierge + mailer + postage). Our team will do your data for it and get it out the door.
6,000 mailers
PatLive introduction at no cost We will help you establish your first script and get PatLive set up on your behalf to answer your phones.
$500 value
Transaction Coordinator Use of our personal Transaction Coordinator team to manage your deals. Trained and ready to go!
$7,500 value
AirTable Ready-for-you CRM managed by your personal Land Academy Pro Transaction Coordinator
$100 value
Personal Consulting 1 on 1 personal consulting with our Transaction Coordinator each week.
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Regular Office Hours Regular office hours with Jack and Jill + our staff. Private for LA Pro Members Only. (Think Career Path Office Hours)
$2,500 value
ParcelFact ParcelFact is included in your LA Pro membership with unlimited pulls.
$150 value
FREE Career Path Access
$23,000 value
Land Academy No more separate charges - Land Academy is included with LA Pro Membership. This includes all education, tools, support, and future releases.
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Subtotal: $8,550 value
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$14,590

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9,000 mailers
PatLive introduction at no cost We will help you establish your first script and get PatLive set up on your behalf to answer your phones.
$500 value
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$7,500 value
AirTable Ready-for-you CRM managed by your personal Land Academy Pro Transaction Coordinator
$100 value
Personal Consulting 1 on 1 personal consulting with our Transaction Coordinator each week.
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Regular Office Hours Regular office hours with Jack and Jill + our staff. Private for LA Pro Members Only. (Think Career Path Office Hours)
$2,500 value
ParcelFact ParcelFact is included in your LA Pro membership with unlimited pulls.
$150 value
FREE Career Path Access
$23,000 value
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$300 value
Subtotal: $8,550 value
Mail Value: $11,250 value
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Gold

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Concierge Data+ (with data) Included mailers each month (data + concierge + mailer + postage). Our team will do your data for it and get it out the door.
12,000 mailers
PatLive introduction at no cost We will help you establish your first script and get PatLive set up on your behalf to answer your phones.
$500 value
Transaction Coordinator Use of our personal Transaction Coordinator team to manage your deals. Trained and ready to go!
$7,500 value
AirTable Ready-for-you CRM managed by your personal Land Academy Pro Transaction Coordinator
$100 value
Personal Consulting 1 on 1 personal consulting with our Transaction Coordinator each week.
$1,000 value
Regular Office Hours Regular office hours with Jack and Jill + our staff. Private for LA Pro Members Only. (Think Career Path Office Hours)
$2,500 value
ParcelFact ParcelFact is included in your LA Pro membership with unlimited pulls.
$150 value
FREE Career Path Access
$23,000 value
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Concierge Data+ (with data) Included mailers each month (data + concierge + mailer + postage). Our team will do your data for it and get it out the door.
15,000 mailers
PatLive introduction at no cost We will help you establish your first script and get PatLive set up on your behalf to answer your phones.
$500 value
Transaction Coordinator Use of our personal Transaction Coordinator team to manage your deals. Trained and ready to go!
$7,500 value
AirTable Ready-for-you CRM managed by your personal Land Academy Pro Transaction Coordinator
$100 value
Personal Consulting 1 on 1 personal consulting with our Transaction Coordinator each week.
$1,000 value
Regular Office Hours Regular office hours with Jack and Jill + our staff. Private for LA Pro Members Only. (Think Career Path Office Hours)
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Concierge Data+ (with data) Included mailers each month (data + concierge + mailer + postage). Our team will do your data for it and get it out the door.
18,000 mailers
PatLive introduction at no cost We will help you establish your first script and get PatLive set up on your behalf to answer your phones.
$500 value
Transaction Coordinator Use of our personal Transaction Coordinator team to manage your deals. Trained and ready to go!
$7,500 value
AirTable Ready-for-you CRM managed by your personal Land Academy Pro Transaction Coordinator
$100 value
Personal Consulting 1 on 1 personal consulting with our Transaction Coordinator each week.
$1,000 value
Regular Office Hours Regular office hours with Jack and Jill + our staff. Private for LA Pro Members Only. (Think Career Path Office Hours)
$2,500 value
ParcelFact ParcelFact is included in your LA Pro membership with unlimited pulls.
$150 value
FREE Career Path Access
$23,000 value
Land Academy No more separate charges - Land Academy is included with LA Pro Membership. This includes all education, tools, support, and future releases.
$300 value
Subtotal: $12,050 value
Mail Value: $22,500 value
Total Value: $57,550
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Disclaimer: *We have a monthly “use it or lose it” policy with mail and data – Land Academy PRO is designed to keep you on-track and consistent.

To cancel, all packages require a 30 day notice to move you back down to regular Land Academy membership.

Office Hours Schedule

Scheduling a Career Path interview call is currently on hold and will resume closer to Fall 2024 as we approach Career Path 10.

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