This is episode number 2091. The topic, in a series all week, the series is called How to Flip a House Without Renovation in 2025. This is step three, step 3 of 5. Jill’s going to talk about establishing a relationship with the homeowners who contacted you regarding your offer.

Thank you.

Jill, do you have something to say about the makeup application?

No, I was just saying don’t bring that up.

Please share with the rest of us.

I was just touching up my lipstick and he was staring at me like, “What are you doing?” “I’m just touching up my lipstick.” This is a camera.

Is there a maximum number of layers where your lips just say nope?

Yeah.

“There’s too much makeup on my lips.” Does your lips say, “Does your body ever push back?”

Have you noticed that the more I’m in the woods, the less makeup I have?

Yes. I have noticed that. Jill and I have been in an RV for six months. By the end of it, I look like the Waltons. Yes. Which I love.

I know.

Who doesn’t?

I know. It’s not a great topic, but thank you.

I don’t know what the man says, “Yeah, can you put some more makeup on this morning?”

No, nobody wants that. I had a facial. I had it. It’s still a red. Just knock it off.

Here we go.

I know. Now you made me how to explain myself. I hate it.

You look beautiful and I mean it.

Thank you. In a perfect world, I don’t wear very much makeup at all.

I open a can of worms. Each day on the show, we answer questions.

Hold on a moment. New relationship status.

Makeupless.

He needs to ask me in great detail about, fill on the blank.

That’s a relationship status?

Let me think about this now. Relationship status. Being annoyed. Curly annoyed. That’s my relationship status. He’s still talking, and currently annoyed.

Understanding Mailer Data Filtering With DataTree

Each day on the show, we answer your question from our Land Academy Discord forum and take a deep dive in land-related topics by popular request if we got through this episode together.

Mark wrote, “I am new to using DataTree to pull data via land academies 3.0 approach. I like DataTree. Before becoming a Land Academy member, I used priced for data not for pricing a mailer. One thing I liked is that you could filter just sites with frontage and access. For those using DataTree for mailer data, how are you filtering sites that have no frontage or access? I’m asking not because I’m against inquiring about these but if I am pricing a mailer based on recent active and sold comps, then sending a price to an owner with a site with no access is not going to be a good purchase price even at 25% of the active slash sold comps.

Do you just send it to everyone anyway and retreat if you get a response from an owner of a site with no access or how can you filter access versus no access sites? Thanks in advance.? Can I just say a couple of things? Number one is, what the heck is wrong with physical access by itself? I’m good with that. What the heck is wrong with legal access by itself? Sometimes I’m good with that too. Like in a perfect world, when you’re new, you want both because you’re learning your way around, you don’t know how to solve for not having the other one. I got to say, “What’s wrong with that? You’re not going to know that.” What kind of access are you talking by the way? Frontage, last time I checked, like a county assessor website, that’s not important to them.

Correct.

I’m going to argue the accuracy of this unless there’s an individual like Oz behind the scenes one by one by one going in there, you don’t really know how accurate or inaccurate it is and you don’t know how many are missing.

Jill, you’re the girl for me.

I know that. Thank you.

That’s all, take a step. Three steps back, erase the whiteboard, three step back, and ask ourselves some philosophical questions about the data that we all use every week. Do mailers and look at real estate. We all use it. If you’re looking at Zillow just for fun because you’re house shopping, you’re looking at real estate data. This data, no matter how you use it, comes from a few places. Number one, the most important and prevalent place is from each county’s assessor. This is a finite data set.

There are 150 million properties in America. Some of them are office buildings, some of them are vacant land, and all the stuff in between houses, condos, all of it. Anything that’s got an assessor parcel number and APM. There are 3,144 counties and parishes, taxing authorities, let’s call them, in the country. Now we’re taking a few steps closer to that white burden, writing some numbers down so we can get our arms all the way around this. It’s not infinite. When you drive around and look at real estate or drive down the freeway, it feels it looks infinite, but it’s not. It’s just a bunch of numbers like everything else.

The assessor creates a data set in their database so that they can analyze the value of what a piece of property, each APM, and their jurisdiction is valued. How it’s valued and then sends it to the treasurer. The treasurer taxes it, assigns a property tax amount, and sends the homeowners a bill, the landowner, the property owners, so they pay their taxes, that’s it. Now, Jill says, “Does the assessor care if it’s got access or not?” No, because it’s gonna reduce the value. The assessor only cares about certain stuff like how many bedrooms is it? How big is it? How many square feet is it? Is it rural vacant land? Is it rural vacant land that will never be built on because it’s wet? Those things affect value. What doesn’t affect value is access.

You know what? Sorry. Go ahead and finish your thing and I have a comment.

You can see how my relationship goes. If I don’t, I have about 30 seconds to talk, and then Jill’s like, “Now let’s talk about something else.”

I have something to add to this. Keep going and then I’m going to add my thoughts.

Fast forward to 2024. When we look at real estate data in the form of Zillow or Realtor.com or even in DataTree, other APIs are feeding it because there’s other pertinent stuff going on. Most specifically, we’re not now just looking at the piece of property like the assessor does. We’re looking at the person who owns the property and their relationship like that person might have great credit or not great credit. That person might have a mortgage associated with themselves in that property.

It becomes a relationship between the real estate and the person. Now that’s coming into play. Even more so now is frontage and access and all kinds of things like that. There are no easy buttons to separate things in and out of this data. The real reason is that assessors, an assessor in Arkansas is going to look at their property and what matters way different than they will in, let’s say, Alaska. You can’t just say a property doesn’t have frontage or access based on some AI algorithm that says, “It doesn’t have a driveway.”

Here’s my thing. I’m sitting here trying to wrap my head around what could we may or may not know, Team Price as former Land Academy members, FYI.

Those guys were Land Academy members.

Yes. I know them. I’m thinking, “What might they be using to call it access or frontage?” You know what I just thought about? I wonder if they’re just picking up something. I wonder if they’re calling it that because there’s an easy button behind there. The easiest way I can think of and I’ll see the flaw in this in a second is anything that’s been assigned an address, maybe they’re associating a street address with access. Do you know how many properties are missing if you’re not mailing beautiful properties with legal and physical access that have not been assigned a street address yet?

Let’s say, and I’ll finish on this, that they have a magic wand, and of the 150 million property.

This will have. This is even better. I like this.

150 million of these properties in the finite data set. They have a magic wand and we eliminate all properties that don’t have road frontage and or physical or legal access. It brings the data set down to, for the sake of argument, from 150 to 70 million. “I feel so satisfied because my mailer is more efficient. What does that mean?” It’s cheaper. I don’t have to send all these properties out of my data set. I don’t have any access. Congratulations, now you’re contacting 50% less sellers. Jill, how many times have you picked up the phone and a seller says, “I got this offer on your property and I happily sell it but it doesn’t have any access?” You’re probably not going to want it. I own these fourteen other properties here. Look, you’re hosing yourself with these easy buttons.

Hold on a moment. I was just going to say too, this is great. I’ll go after all of them because guess what? I know how to get legal and physical access. There’s a whole other market there, too. What if it’s because it’s sometimes just that easy? I’ve even bought properties thought I had. There’s a road right there. It turns out it was a private road. I’m like, “Great.” I just had to get the neighbors involved and then like and I got one of them with a neighbor letter that said, “I’ll give you access, no problem,” kind of thing. My broker knew how to do it. You just once you get somebody that says they’ll do it, it costs about, I don’t know, a thousand bucks and 90 days. This is the paperwork. If everybody’s in agreement. No problem.

Continuing down with that thought, Jill is 100% right. Let’s say we can wave a magic wand and we can take out every property owner who’s dead. That would be about fifteen percent. This is my guess after doing this for a million years. 15% to 20% of the properties that are about 20% of the people you’re sending mail to are dead. The person who’s opening it is the heir or the person who’s opening the mail. They’re dealing with,” He has this piece of property in Nevada too? He’s got all these bank accounts over here. I have to do something about this.” Do you wanna take those people out? No, that property’s for sale. Why make your mailer smaller because of radio buttons?

I want to say to you, Mark, we don’t mean to pick on you. I’m glad you asked this question. This is a hot topic for us, obviously. It comes up and you are right in asking. I hope that helps everyone.

Please trust me. Send the mail to everybody.

I’m glad you asked. 

That’s a logical seller. You don’t need to send mail to the U.S. government. There are APNs in there owned by USAID. That’s what’s silly. You’re wasting the price of a stamp there.

That’s your example. Those you scrub out is what he’s saying. I love that.

Building Relationships With Homeowners For Successful Flips

The topic is How to Establish a Relationship with Homeowners so That You Can Flip a House Without Renovating It Next Year, 2025.

My main thing is, is establish a relationship. How do you do that? Same as you do with everybody else, talk to them, listen. I’m going to start with the big picture and then you can even ask me questions if you have any, Jack.

Establish a relationship with homeowners the same way you do with everybody else – talk to them and listen. Share on X

Before Jill starts, this is so like drinking a glass of water for her that I want to hear what you’re going to say.

It’s almost hard to talk about because I kind of want to go, “Duh.”

That’s what I mean.

The big picture is we’re sending out offers for people with houses, and they don’t have it on the MLS. This is a big thing, too. They could put it on the MLS. When they’re reaching out to us and they get our offer, there’s often a reason why they’re reaching out to us. It’s lower than obviously retail value. I’m not an agent trying to list this house. I’m here trying to buy it and just buy it straight from the seller. They’re like, “Who?”

The people that call me back, first of all, there’s something there. They too don’t want to sell it, we’ll call it the traditional way by calling the local agent, listing it, cleaning it up, and having an open house. Maybe having to renovate the kitchen. Maybe have to do a lot of work to it. Maybe just clean the thing up, or wait that length of time. There are all kinds of things that go on when they go that path. The first thing is I’m already winning. I’ve already won that they picked up the phone and called me and they are on the same page with me.

That’s huge. I come at it like that like, “What’s going on?” My first thing is, “Thank you so much for calling. I’m glad you got my letter about selling. I would like to buy your house on 123 Main Street. Tell me what’s your situation and why are you going to sell right now? Let it start from there.” Let them explain that, “My husband lost the job. Our kids are gone. It’s perfect timing. You haven’t driven by this. This area is whatever. I know my yard. My yard is ugly. I know my garage doesn’t work. You haven’t even seen the backyard yet, kind of thing.”

That’s so you have to let them talk, understand where they’re coming from, and be super compassionate. That’s a lot of it to. Many of these people, they are relieved that someone wants to buy their house in its current condition, and give them cash and close really fast. I always think about that. “This is why we’re doing this. This is why I’m making it so convenient. I’m making this so convenient for you. You have to do any of that crap. I don’t care what it looks like, walk away. It’s totally fine, I will deal with it.” They’re like, “Thank you.”

We are all in the real estate industry. I’m sorry, is it done?

It’s okay. It’s like a couple of parts. It’s listening, compassion, and making it easy for them and doing all the work, let’s put it that way. Those are what you do, but right out of the gate, it’s about the relationship and you got to let them talk. You have to listen to them.

We are price-obsessed. We’re all in the real estate business. We should be. We’re here to make money. The people who are responding to your correspondence, your mailer or your phone call, or whatever it ends up being are circumstance-obsessed with whatever’s happening in their life right now. They want to check this off their list. Usually, it’s a wife managing the changes of whatever’s happening. The relationship comes into part here. Stuff goes wrong in real estate deals, starting with the price.

If you have a relationship with somebody and things start going sideways, we’ve seen it all. The escrow agent stops answering the phone and you’re supposed to close tomorrow. Whoever’s involved in it, all kinds of things can happen. You get a terrible inspection. The foundation in the house is completely shot and it needs to be replaced. Of course, the numbers that you’ve been talking about since you started doing the deal, they don’t apply anymore. You have to adjust it and maybe the seller even knew that.

It may have been not changed.

Maybe that’s why she wants to do the deal with you. If you have a relationship, I don’t mean a 30-hour phone call relationship. I just mean, I like talking to Jill when she calls. That’s it. You’re going to be able to adjust these things to get the property acquired.

Be A Partner Throughout The Entire Process

You need to be that person on the phone that’s on their team. You know what it is too? This is a little secret and how I went over these sellers. I let them feel like we’re on the same team. “We’re trying to do this deal. I want to buy it, you want to sell it. I want to pay this, you want that money in your bank account, great.” The only person now that we have to work with is the escrow agent.

That’s how I talk to like, “Look, anything you don’t understand, trust me, they use verbiage. I don’t even understand sometimes you’re not nuts. They’re going to put up all these forms. It’s stupid. You don’t get them. Call me. I will walk you through it. Maybe it’s whatever like the inspection thing.” They might be panicking because that’s one of the things that we do is we’ll get insubordination and a price. I’ll open escrow and I’ll be with them the whole way. I will babysit and nurture. Just because I open escrow, I don’t walk away by the way.

You nurture these deals and that seller and the escrow agent, by the way, all the way to closing. You don’t let off the gas. Too many things can go wrong. By having this relationship and checking in with everybody too, you’re going to get it done, which is great but maybe they’re sweating the inspection. We open escrow, I do get a typical, and we get a typical inspection. It comes back and that hole in the roof, it’s still there. There’s a hole in the roof. The seller’s sweating it. I had them call me going, “Are you still going to do this?”

Too many things can go wrong on a deal, and by having this relationship and checking in with everybody, you're going to get it done. Share on X

“Of course, I am. You were upfront with me, I know it or maybe even it’s more than we thought.” Like, “Did you know about that?” “No, I didn’t know about that.” Sometimes we have accounted for that in our price. I’m like, “You know what? It’s fine, I’m not going to change anything.” If I am going to change anything, they’re ready for it. They know kind of thing. It’s totally fine. We’re all on the same page. You brought up a good point I thought was kind of interesting because we’ve had this. I remember a couple of years ago on a Friday afternoon.

You and I were on vacation with the kids and with all our friends. It was like this June trip that we did with a bunch of friends every year when we’d go to a different beach. I’ll never forget Friday afternoon, walking down the street and the seller calling me going, “I haven’t heard from anybody, is everything okay?” I’m like, “Of course, we’re closing on Tuesday. Everything is fine.” She was worried about the money and just worried we were going to change our minds.

I’m like, “No.” That’s the thing. You have such a good relationship. Again, you’re in it together. It’s not calling escrow and it’s not anything. It’s like, “Are you, is it going to?” I’m like, “Of course, I’m here. I’m glad you called me. I’m so glad you called me. Don’t worry, I’ve got the dough. We’re closing on time as scheduled as promised and it’s going to be great.”

It’s very rare that a seller goes through this process angry. They go through the process happy. They don’t go through the process saying, “I know if I did it the other way, I would get $100,000 and you’re a terrible person for this.” That never happens.

It's very rare that a seller goes through the selling process angry. Share on X

No, they’re relieved they don’t have to go through that process. I’m going to argue, and there are some situations, I’ll say that it’s, I’ve had some of the worst real estate agent-involved situations I’ve ever had in my life in the last six months. Shocking. Like I’ve been shocked that they’re pulling this crap when people are trying to get deals done.

Me too.

Anyway, that’s a whole other show and a whole other situation. That will be my Facebook status.

Join us tomorrow and we’re going to discuss a different topic here. How we review and price a house for acquisition and then purchase the ones that fit our criteria. A bunch of properties come back, we look at them, but we don’t buy all of them for a lot of reasons. We’ll talk about that.

You shut down Jill’s venting. That’s good.

You are not alone in your real estate ambition. We are Jack and Jill. Information and inspiration t buy undervalued property or irritation.