Splitting Parcels 101 (LA 782)
Splitting Parcels 101 (LA 782)
Transcript:
Steven Butala: Steve and Jill here.
Jill DeWit: Hi!
Steven Butala: Welcome to the Land Academy Show, entertaining land investment talk. I’m Steven Jack Butala.
Jill DeWit: And I’m Jill Dewit, broadcasting from sunny southern California.
Steven Butala: Today Jill and I talk about splitting parcels 101 all week this week. It’s just how to improve your property or property improvement. Should you do it, shouldn’t you do it. If you have to, splitting, for my money, is the best way to dramatically increase how much money you’re making.
I’ll go through the math in this episode and the process and why it’s so incredibly valuable.
Jill DeWit: About when to do it, when not to do that.
Steven Butala: Yeah.
Jill DeWit: Okay, good.
Steven Butala: The whole deal.
Jill DeWit: Cool. I look at it this way too. What I love about splitting parcels, people always say, oh, they’re not making anymore land. Hold on, hold on. You can add an APN.
Steven Butala: I love that. Hey, buy land. They’re not making it anymore.
Jill DeWit: Watch me.
Steven Butala: Hey, get a new cliché.
Jill DeWit: Exactly. Watch me turn that.
Steven Butala: Watch Jill generate money-
Jill DeWit: Watch me-
Steven Butala: By making more land.
Jill DeWit: Make more land, and I’m not talking the Dutch way, like really making land, which they are doing, but it’s a different way.
Steven Butala: Exactly.
Before we get into this though, let’s take a question posted by one of our members on the Landinvestors.com online community. It’s free.
Jill DeWit: Mike asks, hi all, what does it mean if the parcel owner listed on the county website is a title company? Do they own it or are they holding it for someone like a trust, etc? Would these be good to send an offer letter to? Thanks.
Steven Butala: Great question.
Jill DeWit: Awesome question.
Steven Butala: This is a Master’s degrees, maybe PhD level question.
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: Why the heck would a title company like First American Title, if you’ve, why would they own property? If you’ve ever processed data and sent a mailer out, this happens all the time. You always scrub through the data just to see where there’s weird ownership because you don’t want to waste time and money sending a letter to the city of Maricopa or-
Jill DeWit: The fire department or a church, well not church, yes, but fire department-
Steven Butala: Or hospital or any municipality or, in there is like, there is always questionable ones like what the heck is this? Should I send this or not?
Title companies are, they fall into that gray area, so here’s the deal. When people buy property or they own it and they sell it on terms in the deed of trust way, which we don’t recommend, they have to go or should go through a title company, and the title company creates the documents, does the whole thing. They create a deed of trust which puts a lien and a trustee on a property. I know this is a little bit complicated. And great, the seller owns the property. The buyer starts making payments just like you would on a house. This is exactly in a lot of states how you would buy a house. You go to a mortgage company, they give you a loan, they put a trustee in place and, or maybe they act as a trustee in some situations. If you ever hear trust deed investing, that’s what this is.
So as often happens, several months or years later, the sellers or the buyers now are no longer interested in making the payments or they can’t make the payments or they just stopped making the payments. Maybe they die? That happens more often than not, and the title company is sitting there saying, well, where’s the payments? I contacted the buyer 50 times, it’s just over. It’s been 90 days.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: They exercise some version of a foreclosure, or I think in a lot of cases it’s not even required. It just reverts back to them, because they’re so good at deeds and recording and all of this, they take the property back. And then they wait for their, the people above them, their bosses or their corporate to tell them what to do and it’s just like every big company. They never get any clear direction.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: They end up owning a ton of property.
Jill DeWit: Where did the seller go?
Steven Butala: The seller? Okay. This is a great question.
Jill DeWit: Thank you.
Steven Butala: Thank you. The seller sits and looks at this and says, it’s going to cost me a thousand dollars or $1,200 to actually get this property back in my name? I have to go through some version of a reverse foreclosure myself, for lack of a better description?
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: Screw that. You can have it, property.
Jill DeWit: I’ve been paid out. I was paid out a year ago.
Steven Butala: I inherited the property, so I have no basis in it at all. And then number two, I got, yeah-
Jill DeWit: I already got my money back.
Steven Butala: I have five years of payments on a 20 year payment?
Jill DeWit: I don’t want it.
Steven Butala: Yeah. I don’t care. I’m done. So they end up with a version of adverse possession.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: That’s how and why.
So the second part of the question is should I send them a letter? There’s a very good chance you’re wasting your time sending a letter. However, what I’ve done in the past, in the distant past is got a hold of the branch, because you’ll see right on there, it’s First American Title Number 1384, which is like their branch number. And you get to the top person there on the phone and you say, I want all these properties. And the chances are they’re gonna say, yeah, I mean I’ve been staring at those two for about 15 years. Let me make a couple of call, call my regional, I’ll come if you, and if there’s a small chance, but you get to the right person-
Jill DeWit: That’s the key.
Steven Butala: They’re going to say hallelujah.
Jill DeWit: Take them.
Steven Butala: Thanks.
Jill DeWit: Yeah.
Steven Butala: Because they haven’t been paying attention to them.
Jill DeWit: We don’t want them.
Steven Butala: They do not pay taxes on the property.
Jill DeWit: That’s true. Because the county’s going to get it back eventually.
Steven Butala: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jill DeWit: So you’re just taking them off their hands early, correct?
Steven Butala: Okay, so-
Jill DeWit: Yeah.
Steven Butala: That, we answered the question.
Here’s the question you should be asking yourself: do you want to go through all this, or do you just want to send another mailer out and a bajillion people are going to write back to you and say, oh, thanks for writing me a letter, I do want to sell my property for $500. So this is a timely question. All this week we’re talking about stuff you have to do or could do or potentially do to your land after you bought it to make it more valuable to resell it.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: And the answer is do nothing. That should always be your fIrst option.
Jill DeWit: I had to add something because I think this is really funny. Some people, not you, this is not you.
Steven Butala: Oh, here we go.
Jill DeWit: No, no, no, I’m serious. It’s not. You’ll know it doesn’t even apply to you. But some people have to try one and see and it’s comical. So you know, if it’s really, really, really important to you, do one.
Steven Butala: Sure.
Jill DeWit: Go down that path-
Steven Butala: And they’ll never do it again.
Jill DeWit: And there you go. Because you know what it’s like? It’s like people who have tested sending mail only to back tax property.
Steven Butala: Perfect example.
Jill DeWit: And then they’ve tested sending mail to all of the properties. Like that’s our number one way, and when they run the, and I highly recommend if you don’t, 100 percent aren’t sure which is the best way, please try them, and then you will see. You know what I’m saying? It’s comical. I’m like, you know what? Do it, test it. Hey, and maybe it works for you. Maybe I’m wrong, and whatever it is is the way you like doing things. That could be, and that’s fine.
Steven Butala: It could be you like headaches.
Jill DeWit: Right? And losing sleep. So, and a lot of time. But, no, I’m just joking. But anyway, try it. So don’t, I mean that’s my thing too. If you’re not sure, try one, and then you’ll decide for yourself like, all right, never mind, and some people just have to do it themselves.
Steven Butala: Yup. They have to touch it.
Jill DeWit: You know what it is? I’m that way on some things, and I can’t think of them right now, but there’s things that even though I know, I can’t think of a good example, but I know there’s things that you tell me, Jill, if you keep doing that, it’s going to break. You know what I mean? Seriously.
Steven Butala: There’s some real derogatory stuff that just came into my mind.
Jill DeWit: All right. Anyway. Don’t go there. But you know, that’s what happens, there’s, I know there’s times in my life where people have said, don’t do it, don’t do it, I’m telling you now, and like I’ve done that to the kids especially, telling you that’s going to break and then sure enough, I’m like, all right, there we go, are you, are you done now? Yeah. Okay. Just had to see it for myself.
Steven Butala: Do you ever go shopping with somebody, even in the grocery store? And you’re not like this at all, seriously.
Jill DeWit: Okay.
Steven Butala: They have to just touch everything.
Jill DeWit: Oh gosh. All, you know what?
Steven Butala: You know of our five senses there are people that have to, and it takes them forever to do anything because they have to touch it and think about it and eventually probably feel it.
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: Feel it in their emotions.
Jill DeWit: I know. I, yeah.
Steven Butala: I do not want-
Jill DeWit: I can’t stand that.
Steven Butala: Any. I have no interest in like going to see our property unless it’s super, super cool.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: If you’ve ever renovated a house-
Jill DeWit: Well that’s the worst.
Steven Butala: Ever renovated a house, you know exactly what we’re talking about. There’s multiple times, I don’t care if you’re on TV or not, where you’re in the middle of a renovation saying I don’t know if this is worth it. I don’t think this is actually worth the money and the time that we’re doing. I should’ve just marked the thing up-
Jill DeWit: But it’s too late though.
Steven Butala: For $25 grand. I should’ve bought this house, put a lockbox on it, kicked out all the real estate agents, and sent a letter or an email to the people who are renovating houses around here right now, marked it up 20 grand, and moved on to the next deal. That’s what we do.
Jill DeWit: Well how many times do you find that too? Remember that we, if you’ve been in this business at all for any, a considerable amount of time, and especially done renovations and house flips and stuff, I know I’m getting ahead in the house stuff, but it’s funny how you find things like they’ve already gutted it, they, and you’re buying a house already gutted because they obviously-
Steven Butala: They walked away.
Jill DeWit: Changed their mind. And, or they’re halfway done with the renovation and they walked out. So it’s funny how that, if you come across those and you, so, and I think it might be a lot of what you’re saying, they’re like this is not worth it, man.
Steven Butala: Or just something happened in their life-
Jill DeWit: True.
Steven Butala: That needs attention. I mean-
Jill DeWit: That’s true.
Steven Butala: Given the choice, don’t improve anything.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: Here’s what I think. If you have to improve property, or you’re really seriously considering it, one of two things is going on. A, you didn’t buy it cheap enough. That’s your job here. Your job is to negotiate it or price it or just, your job is acquisitions, to do great acquisitions, because the sales will immediately follow.
Or, you, all what you learned your whole life about maximizing price, this is what the whole world tells you. Get as much as you possibly can for that piece of property or don’t sell it.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: And that’s ridiculous. It cracks me up. Mark it up $20 to $25,000; you know it’s worth $80,000 more. Maybe $100. Mark it up, 20, 25, move onto the next deal.
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: The next deal, the next deal, the next deal.
Jill DeWit: Well my thing is too, I was just talking to somebody about this the other day, how fast, she was kind of asking me about flipping properties and timeline. I’m like, well, you know what? How fast do you want to sell? If you’re going to hang out for top dollar, if you’re going to ask for top dollar, you are, sure can-
Steven Butala: It’s going to take two years.
Jill DeWit: It’s going to take you some while. So you’re going to have to sit and wait and wait and wait and wait for that right person to come, and you better be reaching too, by the way, you got to reach them, so get it out there a lot.
Steven Butala: You’re not waiting here. You’re working hard.
Jill DeWit: You are.
Steven Butala: To find that, a person who falls in love with that piece of real estate so much-
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: That they don’t care about the price.
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: That’s a lot of work.
Jill DeWit: That’s going to take some time. I agree.
Steven Butala: And they’re going to have a lot of questions-
Jill DeWit: Versus mark it up.
Steven Butala: Everybody knows-
Jill DeWit: Mark it up, or in our case with our land, double it, get out.
Steven Butala: Exactly.
Jill DeWit: So.
Steven Butala: Today’s topic, splitting parcels 101. This is the meat of the show. If you have to, if you really have to improve your property.
Jill DeWit: It sounds like you can’t stand not touching it. You’ve got to have your hands on or in everything. Go ahead, sorry.
Steven Butala: Then you’re obsessive.
Jill DeWit: Yes.
Steven Butala: Splitting property can be incredibly profitable. Here’s an example of us, but that we’re doing right now. So Jill and I sent a house mailer out, bought a property, we own it right now, as of right now, we own it.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: And it’s got a massive backyard that’s very easily splittable according to all the rules in this local municipality. So to create another APN or in, now that huge backyard, almost a half acre, is ready to be, it’s ready for another house. It’s ready for a builder to come in and build a house on it.
Jill DeWit: Can I, can I say something?
Steven Butala: So, really quickly-
Jill DeWit: Okay.
Steven Butala: We-
Jill DeWit: I want to add to that.
Steven Butala: The seller didn’t know that.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: The seller just thought it was a backyard. So we purchased and bought the house as if we were never going to do this. So we are creating approximately $150,000 of extra revenue on this deal. Is that worth it? I’m not sure.
Jill DeWit: What?
Steven Butala: I’m not sure if we actually are doing the right thing. Is, are we going to make the money? Yeah. Is it going to take, what, it’s probably going to take 30 to 45 days longer, and the people that are involved in this are ultra-professional, so it’s going to happen.
So yeah, it is worth it, but I still think-
Jill DeWit: We knew it going into it, though, I mean that’s a good thing.
Steven Butala: But we didn’t price the house that way.
Jill DeWit: No. Gosh no.
Steven Butala: We priced it as if there-
Jill DeWit: We’re not going to-
Steven Butala: As if there were no extra lot at all.
Jill DeWit: Hi, seller. Do you know what this is really worth? Because you could divide your own property? Are you sure you don’t want to divide it first and then sell it to us? We don’t do that.
Steven Butala: Wouldn’t that be funny?
Jill DeWit: Exactly. That would be hilarious. Hey, look, I just want you to know, could you imagine if every? Gosh, that’s hilarious.
Steven Butala: Every once in a while I get a question from somebody, they say, why are you taking advantage of people, the way that you’re doing this? Don’t you know that they are going through some life thing and you should be paying them fair market value for their property? How dare you?
Jill DeWit: However we are.
Steven Butala: This hasn’t happened in years.
Jill DeWit: Hold on a moment. However we are. I really want to say that we went into this knowing what was possible, and just knowing that in the end it could be even better.
Steven Butala: Right.
Jill DeWit: The initial purchase and to straight resale was worth it enough. Now the rest is gravy.
Steven Butala: Right.
Jill DeWit: So I think I sleep well at night knowing we did the right thing on this transaction, and I love the way we’re doing it. And I don’t know how much you want to share and not share.
Steven Butala: Just not the location.
Jill DeWit: Oh, I’m not going to share the location. Okay. So what’s cool about what we’re doing this is, because we’re not stupid.
Steven Butala: Some of us aren’t.
Jill DeWit: Some of the time. I shouldn’t say that. Not on this transaction. There are plenty of other things that I have personally done that that are stupid.
Steven Butala: Oh, I wasn’t talking about you at all. I was talking about me.
Jill DeWit: Okay. Well we both have stupid stuff. So anyway, not going to say any of them right now. And they’re in the garage. Anyway. Just kidding. I’m just kidding.
Steven Butala: You know we do overpay for, no we actually don’t even overpay for cars.
Jill DeWit: We did overpay. Did I get more?
Steven Butala: We over-bought.
Jill DeWit: Do you know what? Did I get more vehicle that I really needed for my little commute to my office when I go there once a week? Hell yes. So, but does it make me happy?
Steven Butala: Jill drives-
Jill DeWit: Hell yes.
Steven Butala: Burns the back tires off of her car in about a half a mile on a side street-
Jill DeWit: [crosstalk 00:14:49]. One block off the water.
Steven Butala: Listening to Van Halen.
Jill DeWit: Because all the people are on the water, I don’t want to take them out. So anyway, it’s much safer over here.
Steven Butala: Jill has this whole rocker component to her personality that never comes out.
Jill DeWit: Oh, thank you.
Steven Butala: You come out like the sweet, nice homemaker on this show.
Jill DeWit: Yeah, put me behind the wheel or put me on anything like a snowmobile or Vespa or you know, any vehicle? On all those? Yeah. I go crazy. I don’t know what it is. I just have this, that’s my adrenaline thing I get, that’s what it is.
Steven Butala: It’s all your pent up angst about me.
Jill DeWit: I don’t know. No.
Steven Butala: You just take it out on our vehicle. Which is good for me.
Jill DeWit: Actually that could be it. I get mad. No, that’s not good. That’s not safe. Anyway. So what was my point about that?
So here’s the thing about this deal. We all went into it knowing that what’s possible, what’s possible, what’s possible. Well we’d be stupid if while we’re trying to sell it, we’re not starting the process of what’s possible.
So that’s what we’re doing. We are actually starting the process of subdividing. Are we going to absolutely wait to the bitter end to sell it that way?
Steven Butala: No.
Jill DeWit: Heck no. But, so here’s what we’re doing. We are, all along on the process marketing it that way because if somebody wants to swoop in and buy it from me tomorrow at the price, at a still good deal to them, where I’ll just basically hand the paperwork over to them and tell them at any point-
Steven Butala: Finish it.
Jill DeWit: You know, here we’re two weeks in, there’s four more weeks to go, hey, and we price it applicable that they’re still going to get it. They’re going to get an awesome deal, and we’ve done the leg work on, we started the whole process for them. Everybody wins.
Steven Butala: If that happens-
Jill DeWit: That’s the best thing, and that’s what we’re doing.
Steven Butala: And some version of that will happen. We will have done our job and found the right buyer. The buyer that sees the value in that-
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: And we don’t actually necessarily have to cross finish line.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Steven Butala: We, but-
Jill DeWit: And we’re not going to wait.
Steven Butala: We make that person understand the value of this, of the two APNs versus the one.
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: And there is a small chance they want to tear the house down and build one big house-
Jill DeWit: A monster house.
Steven Butala: On a massive lot, which I doubt in that neighborhood, but knock yourself out.
Jill DeWit: It’s such a big parcel that you could have still, because there’s, looking at that land on an aerial map, you can see that people have done it, divided that same lot size into fourths and then you even found even more-
Steven Butala: You could jam.
Jill DeWit: That they can even put-
Steven Butala: If you put townhouses-
Jill DeWit: Townhouses on it. So-
Steven Butala: If we were in California, we’d get it rezoned and jam like 14 houses on there.
Jill DeWit: So there’s a lot of possibility, and I love, we’re just doing the conservative, let’s just cut it in half. You could still have two awesome huge homes on that.
Steven Butala: Yeah.
Jill DeWit: And make a fortune.
Steven Butala: Without a zoning change.
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: So yeah, it’s cool to sit around and talk about this. In the end, it’s probably going to take twice as long as we think and cost twice as much money. And that’s the problem with improving property.
If the houses that we renovated, boy, I wish we could go back in time there.
Jill DeWit: And do what?
Steven Butala: With the exception, and not do it.
Jill DeWit: Oh, oh, oh.
Steven Butala: Just wholesale it back out.
Jill DeWit: Oh, oh, yeah, I know. Well that’s-
Steven Butala: With the exception of one.
Jill DeWit: Do you know what? We had to touch it. You know what?
Steven Butala: Yeah, we had to do it.
Jill DeWit: That’s a perfect example. We had to touch it. We are eating our own words. We did that, and I’ve done that. I’ve like, that was for me actually becoming a parent; I’ve never ate my words so much. That’s my thing.
Steven Butala: Oh my God, boy is that true.
Jill DeWit: Is becoming a parent. You know how it is. Everyone here who’s listening or watching, if you’re a parent, you know you’re, we all do that oh not my child kind of thing. And then you go in it and you find that, yeah, well my kid did it. You know it’s kind of funny. So I’m very good at eating my words now.
So we did that. That’s what we did with the renovations and now we don’t do them anymore, and that’s fine.
Steven Butala: If somebody sat me down-
Jill DeWit: And I’m happy to share that. I’m happy to share. I told someone the other day part of the reason why we’re here is to save you. Let me tell you about, let me tell you what we did and all the mistakes we made, and if you, maybe it’s your forte and you know a way around them, well we didn’t. And we know what we’re good at, and this is our thing.
Steven Butala: If somebody sat me down, you know how we make decisions now? I mean we go through weeks of research and hours and hours online, and especially with real estate deals, I mean it’s almost virtually risk free by the time we buy it, and then we’re selling it so easy.
Jill DeWit: True.
Steven Butala: If somebody sat down and said, you need to do 180 hours of research about being a parent.
Jill DeWit: Oh my gosh.
Steven Butala: Here’s your reading list.
Jill DeWit: Could you imagine?
Steven Butala: I want you to interview these people, and you would never do it.
Jill DeWit: Right?
Steven Butala: If you had all the information about children and marriage and being a grown-up?
Jill DeWit: Oh no.
Steven Butala: You wouldn’t do any of it. It’s a horrific, awful thing.
Jill DeWit: Yeah. That’s true. I’d be, yeah, that’s true. It would be much better if I was living at home and had my pizza job.
Steven Butala: Or what if, you know, we can still do that together.
Jill DeWit: You know?
Steven Butala: We can both deliver pizzas on alternating shifts.
Jill DeWit: Oh, I didn’t deliver them.
Steven Butala: Oh, you just eat them?
Jill DeWit: No. What the heck?
Steven Butala: What’s your pizza job?
Jill DeWit: Make the pizzas.
Steven Butala: At home?
Jill DeWit: Make. No. No, that was my first job.
Steven Butala: I didn’t know this.
Jill DeWit: Oh my goodness.
Steven Butala: Like you worked at Domino’s or something?
Jill DeWit: No. Straw Hat Pizza. My first job was Straw Hat Pizza. I was barely, I think I was 15 and a half?
Steven Butala: I envy you, Jill.
Jill DeWit: I don’t even think I was 16 yet. So. And I met my first boyfriend there. Greg.
Steven Butala: You had a boyfriend when you were 15?
Jill DeWit: Well, yeah, then it was 16, and there was an age difference and my dad was not happy.
Steven Butala: I’m on your dad’s side here.
Jill DeWit: I know, and I’m on my dad’s side too. That was not good. I mean it’s not that big of an age difference. I mean he was 21 and I was 15.
Steven Butala: That’s huge.
Jill DeWit: I know.
Steven Butala: That’s a felony.
Jill DeWit: I know. New subject.
Steven Butala: I have some questions that we’re going to ask in the after show.
Jill DeWit: Okay.
Steven Butala: Well, you’ve done it again. You’ve spent another 15 minutes listening to the Land Academy Show. Join us tomorrow where we talk about tiny houses and RVs and mobile homes as ways to improve your property that you probably shouldn’t do.
Jill DeWit: And we answer your questions posted on Landinvestors.com. It is our online community and it’s free.
Steven Butala: You are not alone in your real estate ambition. Okay, so you have this 21 year old boyfriend, Jill?
Jill DeWit: Greg.
Steven Butala: Yeah. I mean, is that okay?
Jill DeWit: He drove a black Beetle. All surfed out, and I just thought he was the cutest thing.
Steven Butala: My God. How did that end?
Jill DeWit: Great. I mean, fine.
Steven Butala: Everybody shook hands and said it’s over?
Jill DeWit: Oh yeah, totally. It was not a, you know, it was one of those things where we’re just kind of, we just kind of went our separate ways. I don’t know, it’s, you know.
Steven Butala: You’re leaving a lot out.
Jill DeWit: I am. On purpose.
Steven Butala: Because there’s no such thing as a mutual breakup.
Jill DeWit: I’m just kidding. There was no big breakup, you know?
Steven Butala: It’s just a summer or something?
Jill DeWit: Yeah. Maybe that was it. Summer fling? You know, that’s true. I had to go back to school, and he still worked at the pizza place.
Steven Butala: Yeah, because he’s a grown adult.
Jill DeWit: Exactly.
Steven Butala: And you were a child.
Jill DeWit: All right. Yes. Anyway, I don’t know if you could tell. Do you like my Land Academy 2.0?
Steven Butala: Oh yeah.
Jill DeWit: I’m testing out stuff for our live event. Buying, buying a-
Steven Butala: Testing the swag out?
Jill DeWit: Testing out the swag. Actually deciding what to invest and not invest in, and I don’t know if I’m going to go here because I feel kinda like I’m wearing, I feel like a 50 year old golfer, so I am-
Steven Butala: So this is a one of a kind-
Jill DeWit: 60 year old golfer. This is actually limited edition right here because I probably won’t have any more of these. We’re going to get some cooler swag, is where it’s going.
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Steven Butala: Information-
Jill DeWit: And inspiration-
Steven Butala: To buy undervalued property.
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