Idaho Kansas DO NOT CONTACT Laws (CFFL 500)
Idaho Kansas DO NOT CONTACT Laws (CFFL 500)
Transcript:
Jack Butala: Jack Butala and Jill DeWit.
Jill DeWit: Good day.
Jack Butala: Welcome to our show today. This episode, Jill and I talk about the Idaho/Kansas so-called Do Not Contact laws for sending out direct mail offers like we do. Before we get into it, let’s take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It’s free.
Jill DeWit: Okay. Justin asked, “Anyone use RealQuest to mail for houses? I seem to get either 10,000 lines of data or 250-ish. Looking for a good parameter set that would help narrow it down. There has been discussion on the podcast about 2018 being the year for houses.” That would be us.
Jack Butala: But I’m ready now.
Jill DeWit: That would be us. “But I am ready to grow-”
Jack Butala: Yeah Justin.
Jill DeWit: “… the next layer of my business.”
Jack Butala: Love your attitude.
Jill DeWit: “I have wholesaled and bought and sold houses in the past …” This seems like a no-brainer … “to get houses in our contract-”
Jack Butala: It is.
Jill DeWit: “… and assign them to my buyers’ list.”
Jack Butala: It’s a no-brainer.
Jill DeWit: “When other wholesalers are out knocking on doors I like to have the acquisitions come to my mailbox.” It’s hot in Texas this time of year. I love it. “Any help is appreciated.” Jack?
Jack Butala: I’m so glad Justin that you asked this, because Jill and I do this all the time, and it is a total logical extension from Land. So yeah, I mean, to really get into what you’re asking here about the 10,000 lines of data or 250 lines of data, I’m unfortunately sorry to report that it’s some type of user error on your part because, maybe we can get to the bottom of it if you email me. I’m happy to help you at jack@landinvestors.com, because I love this topic.
Jill DeWit: I was going to add, so Justin knows because he’s playing around with it. You’re just going to have, you have to keep playing around with it until you find your, exactly what you want.
Jack Butala: Yeah, that is the answer.
Jill DeWit: So, for example, you can do zip code, I mean you can do subdivision, you can be as broad or specific as you want. You can do three bedroom, two baths, you cannot put those criteria in if you want. You can put in no mortgage if you want. I mean, that’s the beauty of this data that we have. We have so many options, so if you really, you have it all at your fingertips, Justin. You know what you’re doing.
Jack Butala: Well said, Jill. Play around with it, but I’ll tell you what works great for us. When a subdivider, when a home builder goes to create a subdivision, they sit down with the county to get approval. Out west it’s called big entitlements and one of the things that happens during that process is the assessor assigns a series of assessors’ parcel numbers and nine times out of 10, well, actually for us in Arizona, 10 times out of 10 it’s very, very, very predictable. That is how we send mail out.
What I do is I say, “All right, it’s APN scheme, one, two, three through one, two, five. Now I’m staring at a list of every single property in that subdivision. We do it by subdivision. I start removing and scrubbing the data just like we do with Land. We take out all the houses that don’t have, that have mortgages. Then we take out houses that have pools. Then and on and on and on, and to price it, we take a dollar per square foot. We look at the numbers that the properties are selling for, you can get completed sale, but here’s the beauty of this thing, houses over land. There’s so much more available data.
Jill DeWit: Mm-hmm (affirmative), there really is.
Jack Butala: And the quality of the data is so much better because it’s not rural, it’s urban, so it’s a fish in a barrel situation once you get the hang of it. And you’re right about 2018. I have completed, I’ve done writing the education program for it and we have begun filming it, so it might be released a little bit early. I’m hoping it will be, because quite honestly, I’m really, really excited about this. I think it’s going to, you know, we have tons of members now making a lot of money buying and selling land, but this is just, the hard work’s over for them. They get it, they get how to do a mail merge, they get how to use, manipulate data, now this is just throwing wood on the fire.
Jill DeWit: Right. Cool. If you have a question and you want to be in the show, reach out to either one of us at landinvestors.com.
Jack Butala: Thank you Jill.
Jill DeWit: You’re welcome.
Jack Butala: Today’s topic, the so-called Idaho/Kansas Do Not Contact laws. Jill has some stuff to say about this. Jill has all the information today.
Jill DeWit: I guess I am. Well, okay, I’m going to start, so this came up in our online community too that people were asking, “Hey, what’s going on with these two states? Am I allowed to send offers?” I’m like, “All right, I’m going to get to the bottom of it.” So I did. That’s what we do. Anyway, I was already pretty darn sure that I knew the answer, but I made sure, so let me start with the easy one, which is-
Jack Butala: Get to the bottom of it.
Jill DeWit: … which was Idaho, so right now, and I’ll tell you, as I am speaking I am staring at the website for the Office of Attorney General for the State of Idaho. If you go under Consumer Protection and Statutes and Rules, this is where you’ll find this kind of information. First of all, Idaho, it’s very easy to just go through here, and there’s actually nothing as far as direct mail. Telephones, like, I think every state, there’s definitely do-not call lists. There’s a charitable solicitation when they’re asking for money, but there is actually in a chain letter, Pyramid and Chain Letter Act, to get someone to participate in a pyramid distribution scheme. It’s funny, a chain or pyramid distributor scheme, well, that’s obvious.
Jack Butala: The big picture here is, people in our group are having issues with sending direct mail offers, or they think they are.
Jill DeWit: They think they are.
Jack Butala: Direct mail offers to these two states, and this show is to bring some finality to that. Get to the bottom of it.
Jill DeWit: This is how you do it, by the way, this is perfect, so if you really think that there’s a problem and then you should look it up, and if, the way that Jack and I roll, unless somebody complains, then that’s really … Is that okay to say Jack?
Jack Butala: Well, I mean, if they knowingly do something wrong …
Jill DeWit: Well, that’s right too. I’m not going to … This is true. We all know, well, maybe we don’t all know. I mean, we should know by now that the phone thing is a no-no. That shouldn’t be happening and what really makes me mad is that a lot of people are doing that and maybe that’s part of this problem. I see people in other online communities that are trying to use companies like private investor companies, they get phone numbers for people that own homes to try to call them. I’m like, “That’s not cool.”
Jack Butala: That’s really not cool.
Jill DeWit: That’s really not good. I mean, you’re going above, that’s like really bad. I wonder if this is part of where it’s coming up, because there’s people out there that are really going about this the wrong way.
Jack Butala: There’s issues with email, we all know, the spam laws are national, they’re not state.
Jill DeWit: Right, so we’re talking direct mail. Idaho we can check it off our list. Now, Kansas is a little-
Jack Butala: Wait a second, what’s the summary on Idaho? Can-
Jill DeWit: Yeah.
Jack Butala: … people send them?
Jill DeWit: Totally. The only people that can’t is if you’re looking for money from them. You’re trying to solicit it. It’s a charitable solicitation. You know, that’s usually how people come about it.
Jack Butala: Bear in mind we’re sending offers to give them money. We’re not trying to sell them anything.
Jill DeWit: Right, so as far as mail, the only thing that’s covered for Idaho is the Chain Letter Act, the Charitable Solicitation Act and then phones. I mean, that’s it. Everything else is all normal. The Lemon Law and Consumer Protection Act, just laws to make sure everybody’s doing the right thing, which we all agree with.
Jack Butala: What do you think’s causing the confusion then?
Jill DeWit: I am actually not sure, but you know what, let me get to the Kansas one and this-
Jack Butala: It’s Kansas.
Jill DeWit: I have no idea where Idaho …
Jack Butala: It’s ultra clear in Kansas, I think.
Jill DeWit: Yeah, well I mean, I think that it’s the way that some of the laws are worded that gets confusing and that’s why. Let me get into Kansas here and I think you’ll see why this came up. The Kansas, here’s a question, I got into this, it’s KSA, it’s the Kansas Open Records Act and there’s a Kansas statute basically, and it’s 45-230 if anybody really wants to look this up.
Here’s a question that’s on their website: “May someone use names and addresses from public records in order to buy something from those listed?”
“Yes. KSA 45-230 does not prohibit the use of lists of names obtained from public records in order to purchase property from the persons listed.”
Jack Butala: Kansas, however, is unique over all the other states in that you cannot send a direct piece of mail to sell them something.
Jill DeWit: Here’s the thing. I think the confusion was buying a list from someone versus using the public records for yourself, because here’s an interesting question: “May someone use a third party to obtain names and addresses from public records in order to use them for commercial solicitation?”
“No. Requesters of public records cannot lawfully circumvent the provisions … by doing so indirectly;” a third party obtains a list, violates the law if used for commercial purposes. But again, this is where it gets confusing. I’m not trying to get money from somebody. You know what I mean? I’m not advertising them to buy my [inaudible 00:10:08] kind of thing. Do you want more to that?
Jack Butala: No, I really think, you know, we did all the research and the facts are what we just said. Can you summarize them?
Jill DeWit: This is nutty. Yes. The bottom line is you can collect your own information from a reliable source-
Jack Butala: Like RealQuest.
Jill DeWit: … like RealQuest who is using public records. You just shouldn’t be selling it knowingly, because you’re using it for yourself, your personal use. These are just, really just for Kansas to send offers to people who own homes. That’s totally legit.
Jack Butala: Or land.
Jill DeWit: What’s not legit is, “Hey buddy, I got a list, you want to buy a list from me? I know you’re trying to sell all these people something. I’ll get you the Kansas information here. Give it $500 under the table” or whatever. That’s stuff you shouldn’t be doing. You can’t be, and that’s what they don’t want.
Jack Butala: If any of you out there have gotten slapped on the hand by sending offers in Idaho and Kansas, please email me directly. I’d like to know. If you’re finding the availability, the lack of availability on data for either one of those states, specifically from [inaudible 00:11:28] class, because I’ve heard rumors of that. I personally, I can see the data in Idaho. I’ve had some of our members say, “There’s just no data. It’s not available.” That may have been true on that day, but I checked.
Jill DeWit: All right. Basically if you’re contacting these people as a buyer, not a seller, as a solicitor, then you’re good.
Jack Butala: Let me disclaim this. Don’t you hate when people say, “I’m not a lawyer.”
Jill DeWit: No, I’m not a lawyer, I know.
Jack Butala: So I’m not going to say that. What I’m going to say is, the way we read it, because we try to get to the bottom of things, is that it’s okay to do it.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Jack Butala: I have never, full disclosure, sent mail out in either one of those states to buy property. Never.
Jill DeWit: Right, exactly.
Jack Butala: Is it okay to do it? We think so, but check.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Jack Butala: Bear in mind, when you call the county and ask them, they’re going to say, “What are you talking about?” Or they’re just going to say “No,” because it’s easier to say no than yes in life.
Jill DeWit: This is true.
Jack Butala: On anything.
Jill DeWit: It’s so interesting, okay, it’s like this Domino’s Pizza …
Jack Butala: That’s what I just going to bring up, so people-
Jill DeWit: Does Domino’s Pizza not do Idaho and Kansas? I don’t know. That’s funny.
Jack Butala: That was really my question too, like-
Jill DeWit: Like can I not put a coupon on my door in Kansas?
Jack Butala: How much mail you get, it’s awful.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Jack Butala: Like for stuff like that.
Jill DeWit: Exactly. I would think, really at the end of the day, I think mail is the one way that people still can advertise legitimately and respectfully. I’m not calling you, I’m not filling up your email, and I’m not doing other stuff. If you don’t want it throw it away.
Jack Butala: Yeah, I mean, what I like about it is that you can do it at your leisure, you know? You can do whatever you want about it. It’s not in your face, it’s not disrupting you, you’re not … If you’re letting it wreck your dinner then that’s kind of your issue.
Jill DeWit: Right, yeah, and if you, and here’s the thing too that Jack started to say. If you’re in any way not sure about something it’s super easy to move on. We’ve talked to people too and they’re new and they’re starting out, and maybe the county that they want to send offers to doesn’t have a real good web presence and they’re having trouble getting some of their questions answered, and some things from the county. Well, maybe we should pick a different county. That’s okay.
Jack Butala: Yeah.
Jill DeWit: You can pick a different state. That’s okay.
Jack Butala: You can say it like this: you are in control. Just like the question up here from Justin. You have complete control over this. If you’re not getting the answers you want and you’re not getting the response you want or the compliance that you want, just go one county to the right.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Jack Butala: Or left.
Jill DeWit: Stuff like this is no reason to throw in the towel and say, “Well, I’m out.” If you are going to use this to throw in the towel, then this is not your business and that’s okay. Jack and I are going to go, “Fine, next. Let’s go over here, and if this doesn’t work, we’ll go over here.”
Jack Butala: There’s 149 million properties in the country. Some of them are, some people, several people right now are talking about selling their property for any amount of money just to get out of it.
Jill DeWit: Right.
Jack Butala: Our job is to find them.
Jill DeWit: Exactly. There’s so much out there. You could pick one state and be busy for the rest of your life.
Jack Butala: That’s right.
Jill DeWit: I mean, you really could. So don’t get hung up on any of these details.
Jack Butala: Why would you?
Jill DeWit: Why would you?
Jack Butala: Yeah, pick out 30 states.
Jill DeWit: Yeah. Oh, stick with one, I thought you were getting hung up on a detail. I’m like, “You don’t get hung up on details.”
Jack Butala: Join us in another episode where Jack and Jill discuss how to use information, that’s me.
Jill DeWit: And inspiration, that’s me.
Jack Butala: [inaudible 00:15:12] just about anything you want.
Jill DeWit: We use it every day to buy property for half of what it’s worth then sell it immediately.
Jack Butala: You’re not alone in your real estate ambition. Can I tell you how nice it is to have you do some research and-
Jill DeWit: Was that too dry?
Jack Butala: No, it’s a dry topic.
Jill DeWit: Sorry.
Jack Butala: No, it wasn’t too dry.
Jill DeWit: All right.
Jack Butala: It’s a dry topic, but sometimes on the show we got to cover this stuff.
Jill DeWit: Okay.
Jack Butala: We can horse around tomorrow.
Jill DeWit: Okay. All right, got it.
Jack Butala: You just had a birthday.
Jill DeWit: I did have a birthday.
Jack Butala: This is episode number 500 for us.
Jill DeWit: It is episode 500. Wow.
Jack Butala: That’s a huge milestone.
Jill DeWit: It is. Woo hoo.
Jack Butala: Two reasons to celebrate.
Jill DeWit: Big week. That’s right.
Jack Butala: Congratulations.
Jill DeWit: Oh yeah, thanks. Congratulations to you too.
Jack Butala: Thank you. Information and inspiration to buy undervalued property.
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