Transcript:

Steven Jack Butala:
I’m Steven Jack Butala.

Jill K DeWit:
And I’m Jill DeWit, and this is the Land Academy Show.

Steven Jack Butala:
This is episode number 2,011, and today Jill and I are talking about the truth about working with your spouse in the land business. In case you don’t know, it’s not all peaches and cream.

Jill K DeWit:
Oh, there may be something-

Steven Jack Butala:
Just like this show.

Jill K DeWit:
I got to write one more thing down. Excuse me, I have another note now, just kidding.

Steven Jack Butala:
On a personal note, I love this topic. I think it’s going to be a blast. I think there’s probably a lot of stuff that Jill’s got to say. There’s a few things I need to say.

Jill K DeWit:
And in the safety of this environment with you on the other end, we can’t get in trouble.

Steven Jack Butala:
That’s exactly right. Well, we can only get in a certain amount of trouble.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
We can’t get in any nasty [inaudible 00:00:56]-

Jill K DeWit:
Major trouble, because when the camera’s off, so are the gloves.

Steven Jack Butala:
Hey, it’s hockey season by the way, I’m taking those gloves off.

Jill K DeWit:
Yes, all right. Hey, before we get started, I have a big announcement. For the first time ever, we’ve never done anything like this. We are going to do a live, open to the public workshop the week of June 17th. I’m looking for the exact dates here. So, June 17th through the 21st, and it’s not like the same thing is going to be repeated. It’s going to be building on each other every day. So, we’re going to start with equity planner and goal setting and all that stuff.
It’s kind of everything we do in Land Academy, but I wanted to really take a step back and have an open workshop for anyone. So, if you’re really thinking about doing this, you do not want to miss it. So watch your email, if you’re not in my email loop, you should be. Download our free eBook, that’ll get you in there. Or just send a note to my team like, “Hey, what’s going on June 17th? I need to be involved,” to support@landacademy.com. So, what’s going to happen is it’s going to be one hour a day, Monday through Friday that week, sometimes with Jack, and sometimes just me, and it’s going to be 9:00 AM Pacific time to 12:00 PM Eastern Time, and again, just for an hour each day and it’s really going to give you-

Steven Jack Butala:
You will learn tons.

Jill K DeWit:
Oh my gosh, a really good insight to what’s going on more than just reading the eBook and getting on the Thursday call.

Steven Jack Butala:
How to buy and sell land.

Jill K DeWit:
Totally. We’re going to really do as much as a deep dive as we can in an hour, but you’re going to walk away knowing whether this is a good fit for you or not. I guarantee it.

Steven Jack Butala:
I’ve been doing this for 30 years. We’ve done more than 16,000 deals, Jill’s been doing it for more than 15 years, so we know what we’re talking about, and we’re not at this age afraid to share the actual real story.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
Not the fluff, not just what’s possible, but here’s how to do it.

Jill K DeWit:
We have nine years of Land Academy. We got people that have been with us nine years, so we have a lot to share.

Steven Jack Butala:
Each week on the show, we answer a question from our Land Academy member Discord forum, and we take a deep dive into land related topics by popular request from our Land Academy community. I read a couple of reviews of our show recently and one reviewer said, it just made me out loud crack up, “Yeah, this show is fine. The highlights are actually just the questions. So, if you can just listen to the question and not really listen to the other stuff that they said…”

Jill K DeWit:
Oh, that’s hilarious. Just tune in for the first five, 10 minutes, and then you’re done?

Steven Jack Butala:
By the way, it was the most meaningful comment. There’s all kinds of comments about everything on the internet, but that was like… I just want to hear the questions. We’re going to do two questions today.

Jill K DeWit:
All right, so I’m going to read one, and you’re going to answer, and then there’s a second one. We’re going to flip-flop. So all right, here’s our first question. Greg wrote, “Good morning. For infill lots, when we’re doing the red, yellow, green test for houses, are we only looking at new construction or all houses? Also, should we use the red, yellow, green test for lots once we determine our favorable zip codes from houses? How much do both lots and houses are they test for a reason or is it doing too much work?” I’m sorry, “Would doing both lots and houses be a test for a reason or is that just too much work?”

Steven Jack Butala:
So, I’m going to simplify Greg’s question, because I’m pretty sure I know what he’s asking.

Jill K DeWit:
Cool.

Steven Jack Butala:
Do you test lots or do you test houses or do you test both? This is what you do. You test for everything that is reported and make sure it’s apples to apples. So, you have a zip code, you test, just like we teach in the program, there’s three or four or it could be as many as eight statistics that you judge a zip code on whether or not it’s viable for you to send out mail. You’re using data to make a decision about sending out offers. He’s asking, what do you include in that data? And the answer is you include in that data apples to apples for every single zip code, the stuff that’s provided by the data source.
So, now it doesn’t really matter if it’s just land, if houses are thrown in there, as long as each of the zip codes are apples to apples comparison, you’re going to know whether or not there’s enough activity, the right kind of activity in that zip code to warrant you sending mail, and that’s the answer. For houses, it’s the same. For land, it’s the same. A lot of people don’t know that we have a program called House Academy, and I go over this in great detail in the House Academy program. In fact, if you go to houseacademy.com, check it all out. It’s very pertinent to what’s happening now from a demographic standpoint or from a… Geez, from a… Help me here.

Jill K DeWit:
I’ll let you flounder.

Steven Jack Butala:
Why?

Jill K DeWit:
It’s kind of funny. No, I’m just joking. You know what’s funny about that? I recorded earlier today a podcast that’s going to air in a couple weeks with a longtime, eight-year member, her name is Bei Zhang, and she’s like, “Oh, we are still happily doing houses, too.” She’s like, “We just closed on one on Monday.” I said, “what are you doing? Are you going to keep it or rent it?” She goes, I think I might keep this one.” Keep it or flip it, it’s all done the Land Academy way, which is we don’t remodel, just buy it, right? “Are you going to keep it? Are you going to sell it?” She’s like, “I think we’re going to keep this one.” I’m like, “Good for you.” She’s like, “I’m putting more things in more buckets.”

Steven Jack Butala:
We’re doing a house mailer right now, too. Anyway, in these current economic times, it’s very valuable to start to consider buying and selling houses. Most of the members that we have, have had or have for a long time, nine-plus years like Bei, they do both and so do we.

Jill K DeWit:
Exactly.

Steven Jack Butala:
Chris asks, this is question number two, “I’ve been working with a seller who wants to do a deal in a very strange manner. I think she’s pretty old. We are communicating via email only. At first, it seemed like she didn’t want to use a title company at all. However, now she’s saying that she’s okay closing with the title company, but she wants an earnest money deposit to be sent to her directly, rather than through the title company, so she can hold the properties for me.” I don’t know what that means.
“I’m concerned that there’s a bunch of title work necessary to close the deal, as at least one of the properties was transferred on a quitclaim deed. By the way, this is a package of six properties. The margins are likely decent. I am not completely sure as three or four of the properties are not mapped and the county does not have a survey on file, so I would have to get a survey done to determine where the properties are. One of the properties should be able to sell for like 40 to 45,000, and the other one for about between seven and 10,000. One is an odd-shaped parcel that doesn’t have much use. The unmapped parcels are a toss up. I think they’re worth a couple of thousand dollars each at least if they have decent attributes, maybe more, like 10 to $15,000 each. She wants 32,000.” If I do real quick math on my head, it’s 45 plus 10, that’s 55, plus 30.

Jill K DeWit:
Buy for 32, sell for 70?

Steven Jack Butala:
Yeah.

Jill K DeWit:
I know what I think.

Steven Jack Butala:
Go ahead.

Jill K DeWit:
Well, here’s my first thoughts on this one. Here’s an interesting side note, based on this information and what I know about the seller, and hard to find them, and the survey work and stuff, I kind of think I know what state it is.

Steven Jack Butala:
I think it’s Oklahoma.

Jill K DeWit:
I know you do that. That’s what I wrote down right there. All right, well, how scary is that? That’s why you’re here.

Steven Jack Butala:
That’s why you work with your spouse sometimes.

Jill K DeWit:
Holy Moly. Boy, those Landing Academy people know their stuff. We just read this question, they know what state it is. Yep, okay. That’s how long we’ve been doing this and how spread out we are in the country. So, that’s a side note, but you know what? I’m not going to play those games. I got to tell you right now, if it was buy for 10 and sell for 70, now I’ll jump through hoops for her, but I’m worried that the time this is going to take, and the cost, and the energy, and I’m very sorry, but I personally would not wire or send somebody money for them to hold it for me…
That’s what I think he means. “Well, if you give me $5,000 right now, son, I won’t sell them to anybody else, too, and I promise when you’re ready to close, we’ll all be here.” Mm-mm, I wouldn’t do that. So, that’s not how… It goes into I do it the normal way, because no one’s going to play those games, too, kind of thing. She either wants to sell or she doesn’t. So, I think there’s two things going on here. She probably wants to sell, I do believe that, but I do think that there’s some hesitation in her and trusting you. I hate to say it, but that’s what I suspect, because I don’t have these issues. Maybe there’s more phone calls, maybe there’s something else, and I really wanted you to make sure, gosh, before you go down this path, is it worth your time?

Steven Jack Butala:
So, I’m filming ManPlan right now, manplan.com, which I’ll be releasing in September as an informal… It doesn’t matter, and one of the things that I really preach about in gaining wealth, I don’t care if it’s through land or houses, or metal stamping, or convenience stores, whatever you are doing, you have to do it within reason, within your acquisition criteria. So I can tell you right now, this does not fit our acquisition criteria.
And that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t fit yours, it doesn’t fit it from a how much money you can potentially make, which I think is really best case, maybe 40,000 bucks or B, how much a pain in the ass it is, and so we’re just past it. Jill and I have done 16,000 deals. We’re past these kinds of deals. I’m not saying if you’re new to this, because I actually think you are, or newer, Chris, that you shouldn’t consider it, but this is just a lot of time and energy and I believe it’s easier to send out more mail, pick the best ones that come back from the actual mail that you’re sending out, and just do the deal.

Jill K DeWit:
And you know where they are.

Steven Jack Butala:
Makes sure it fits your criteria.

Jill K DeWit:
The numbers, there’s no guessing.

Steven Jack Butala:
You have all the answers.

Jill K DeWit:
You know what’s funny? You can’t even get a real opinion on this, because you don’t know where they are.

Steven Jack Butala:
That’s right.

Jill K DeWit:
That’s the thing. It’s not like you can call like, “Okay, I’m going to go to a local expert and get their opinion.” Nobody knows where they are. I used to entertain that. We used to entertain that. Only when I would buy a big bundle, say we’re buying 30 or 50 properties for somebody in this state, in this situation, and there were just a couple, two or three that we couldn’t find them, that I entertained because those were gravy anyway. If I could find them, great. If I couldn’t, I didn’t care. All the other 27 properties that I’d bought from this person, I knew where they were, paid for the whole thing, so that’s how I rolled.

Steven Jack Butala:
Any time Jill and I have ever done a multi-APN deal, 20, 30, 40, 50 properties, I’ve done them as high as, geez, 1,000. We made millions of dollars on it, and there were always amazing properties in that group, and properties that we just let them go back to the taxing authority, because maybe we couldn’t find them, maybe we don’t care.

Jill K DeWit:
Maybe it was a cemetery, maybe because-

Steven Jack Butala:
True story.

Jill K DeWit:
When people are offloading bundles of property, there’s going to be some junk in there that they’re like, “Just get it out of here. Clean out my garage, I want to put my car here.”

Steven Jack Butala:
So, my answer to this and he goes on. The question gets really long, but he’s like, “What should I do? What’s the worst thing that can happen? I pay the 3,000 bucks and I lose it, because she just goes dark?” Yeah, I guess that is the worst thing that could happen, or it could all go as planned and you get stuck with some property that you don’t know where it is. Now, you’ve got to do surveys to find it. My big fear with this deal is that the taxing authority, either the county has some crazy hoops for you to jump through, because now you own properties that weren’t… Why doesn’t she know where they are?

Jill K DeWit:
I know.

Steven Jack Butala:
They weren’t subdivided correctly, that’s why.

Jill K DeWit:
And there’s a quitclaim deed did he say on this one?

Steven Jack Butala:
Yeah, somebody isolated, they created an APN at the taxing authority several years ago probably, created an APN for a property based on a legal description, and it’s not on their books. So, it’s not the end of the world. You can work through this. Wouldn’t it be easier to do another 30,000 unit mailer, pick four properties out of there that you’re going to make 100 grand on? I think so.

Jill K DeWit:
Chris, don’t date this seller. I have six red flags right now.

Steven Jack Butala:
Oh my God, Jill, you’re right.

Jill K DeWit:
She wants money up front. She’s like, “I don’t even know where they are.” Some of them were transferred funky with a quitclaim deed. Mm-mm, Chris, if I were your sister, I’d say move on. Call another seller. Call another girl.

Steven Jack Butala:
There’s more fish the sea.

Jill K DeWit:
Yep.

Steven Jack Butala:
Today’s topic, the truth about working with your spouse in the land business or any business. Jill, give us the highlights of working with me.

Jill K DeWit:
Where do I start? Well, here’s a beautiful thought… I actually don’t know where to start.

Steven Jack Butala:
I do.

Jill K DeWit:
You want real highlights?

Steven Jack Butala:
No, I’ll start if you want.

Jill K DeWit:
Okay, please go ahead. You have a plan.

Steven Jack Butala:
Jill is amazing on the phone.

Jill K DeWit:
Well, yeah, you’re great at data. All right, okay, I can jump in then, too.

Steven Jack Butala:
Well, do you want me to start or not, because-

Jill K DeWit:
No.

Steven Jack Butala:
… I saved it right there.

Jill K DeWit:
You did save me. Now I want to take it back over.

Steven Jack Butala:
Okay.

Jill K DeWit:
All right, the highlights of working with you-

Steven Jack Butala:
See that flexibility with working with your spouse-

Jill K DeWit:
There you go.

Steven Jack Butala:
… In front of a camera?

Jill K DeWit:
That’s what we’re talking about. Highlights of working with you, you definitely fill in the gaps on the things that I’m not good at, and part of it is luck and… No, I’m serious. No, part of it is that luck that we got together that I to have a different talent. I have different talents and you have different talents.

Steven Jack Butala:
Oh yeah, that’s for sure. Pure luck actually.

Jill K DeWit:
So, that’s what I mean. So, that’s really great. I don’t have to explain what I’m doing every day. You understand what’s going on. My team is your team. Now, I’m ready to hand the torch back.

Steven Jack Butala:
I’ll save you as we go here. I know how this is going to go.

Jill K DeWit:
Oh, great.

Steven Jack Butala:
Jill’s amazing on the phone. We have very separate talents, but here’s the thing that if you want to know in less than 30 seconds whether or not you’re supposed to be working with your spouse or maybe supposed to be with her at all, ask her this, what is your long-term goal? And this is not gender-specific. If you’re a woman listening to this, ask your man, or vice versa, what is your long-term goal? When you look out as far as you can see, based on your age or whether you have kids or not, or everything that’s going on, what your jobs are, what’s that look like way out there?
What’s your house look like? Where do you live? How much money do you have in the bank? Where are the kids going to school? And on and on and on, and then sit quietly and listen to the answer. Don’t steer them. If they answer the same way that you… Because answer the question first for yourself before you answer it, if they basically have the same answer, then you have hope that you can work together. So, Jill and I have very different talents. I’m a data person and all the decisions I make are data-driven. She’s all social, social on the phone, she’s got innate corporate sales in her fiber. That’s what she is.

Jill K DeWit:
That’s what I did for years.

Steven Jack Butala:
She didn’t make that up. I didn’t make this data thing up. We both got stuck with it, I think at birth, for better or for worse, and it’s not an opposites attract thing, because I think Jill and I are very similar. We are very technical, both of us, when it comes to just approaching anything.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
But I did ask her that a long time ago, and she described to me almost to my vision what I wanted. In fact, she improved my long-term vision on it in a bunch of areas, not so much with accumulated equity, but how we got there, and how we got there through real estate, believe it or not. I was doing this 15 years before she and I met. So, I thought I had it licked really successfully, crazy successfully. Then, we joined forces and it was times 10. So, ask your partner that stuff, and this next part, in my opinion, is not just spouse specific, but with any business partner. Two people who are salespeople are not going to be good business partners. One accountant and one salesperson are probably going to do really well together.

Jill K DeWit:
Yin and yang is the best.

Steven Jack Butala:
Yeah.

Jill K DeWit:
So, I actually have four points.

Steven Jack Butala:
Oh, good. You had some time to write some stuff down?

Jill K DeWit:
I did, while you were talking, I tuned you out, and I thought of my own things.

Steven Jack Butala:
Tuning your partner out is an incredible attribute.

Jill K DeWit:
Actually, that is an attribute. I need to write that down. So, you just covered the first one. I’m giving you credit for the first one, which is sitting down and making sure you have the same goals. Like, “Okay, we’re going to start this land company together. Is everybody all in?” If someone’s like, “I don’t know, land is kind of stupid,” you shouldn’t convince your spouse/partner about this business, because that’s number one will sink the ship right there. So, once you have the goals out of the way, then the second part is you got to divide up your day-to-day operation, your day-to-day responsibility. Who’s on the phone? Who’s doing the data? Who’s doing the trolling? And our recommendation is more division the better. You should not be sitting down together to troll. Could you imagine if we did that?

Steven Jack Butala:
Oh my God.

Jill K DeWit:
How about, “Hey, Jack, I noticed you’re running the red, yellow, green test for those zip codes. Do you mind if I sit down and weigh in?” I’m going to tell you-

Steven Jack Butala:
That would be so bad.

Jill K DeWit:
And every time you mark something as green, I’m going to go, “No, I think that’s yellow.”

Steven Jack Butala:
Could you imagine if you got off the phone with a seller and I said, “I don’t think you handled that too well.”

Jill K DeWit:
You could have got more.

Steven Jack Butala:
In fact, I listened to your whole conversation and I made notes and I would… Let’s sit down.

Jill K DeWit:
Here’s what I think you should do?

Steven Jack Butala:
It’s going to take a couple hours to go over these notes and I want to critique your performance. That would be it.

Jill K DeWit:
Exactly, and even if, okay, we both help with this, we’ve gone down that path. So in the beginning when I stepped in, there were times in Jack’s career, he did every role, every single last one. So, he would just sometimes just jump in like, “I know how to do this, I can talk to these people,” and he would undo some of the work that I did. So, you have to divide it up, stay out of that person’s lane, and what if we divide it up? Does that mean rock, paper, scissors? We don’t want to stick one with all the crappy jobs. You want to first, I would say sit down and write down all the 20 things that are part of your world, your day-to-day operations. Together, pick and choose what A, you know each person’s good at, each individual’s good at and they want to do. Let’s start with that. Can I finish?

Steven Jack Butala:
Yeah.

Jill K DeWit:
What they’re good at? And then there’s going to be some stuff at the bottom. I promise you there’s going to be three or five things that nobody wants to do, but you work out some agreement like, “All right, I’ll take this, because I know I’m better at it, if you take these two things,” done. That’s how you get everything done. And then like I said, you stay out of each person’s lane. You’ve committed… Write it down, we have had so many contracts over the years. You know what’s funny? I can’t remember the last time we’ve had a contract.

Steven Jack Butala:
No, that’s right.

Jill K DeWit:
It’s been a couple years now.

Steven Jack Butala:
Things go sideways and we read a contract.

Jill K DeWit:
I’m telling you though, the first 15 years, or the first five years I should say of us doing-

Steven Jack Butala:
We didn’t know any of this.

Jill K DeWit:
… Deals together, we wrote so many contracts and signed them and taped them everywhere just to remind the other person, “You’re in my lane,” kind of thing. Like, “Oh, you’re right, got it.” So, that’s not wrong, that’s okay. My third thing is, so we got the goals was one, two was… Gosh, dividing the day-to-day responsibilities, and C is now you got to support each other. What if one day’s harder? What if he’s really… God, he’s struggling on something and I pivoted all my sales, I’m not doing any sales myself. I’m just managing a bunch of brokers, so my day’s easier, but boy, his part’s still harder. And wow, I’m seeing him… Whatever area we’re going into is having a hard time getting the data and getting enough data and maybe there’s just some extra things he’s got to do, something like that.
Support the other person, and I don’t mean sit down with him and go, “Gee, show me what you’re doing. Let me help you.” Mm-mm, support him another way, it’s like, “What’s going on and how can I help you?” Well, you know what? I’m hungry. I could use a sandwich.

Steven Jack Butala:
Yeah, it’s as simple as that.

Jill K DeWit:
I use that a lot, because it’s really real and we do that for each other all the time. You made me a salad today.

Steven Jack Butala:
Yeah.

Jill K DeWit:
Honestly, you did this exact thing for me today. We are here in the RV and I’m working on household things, seriously, around the RV, while I recorded a podcast by myself today. You’re working on a presentation for today, and at that moment you were done and I was still knee-deep in a bunch of things. And you’re like, “How about if I make you a salad?” I’m like, “God, that’s great. I appreciate that.” So, little things like that, supporting the person, maybe it’s with the kids, running errands. Who knows? Ask them or surprise them, depending on the person, but that’s really important. My final point is… Do you want to talk more about the positives, and I’ll leave my final one?

Steven Jack Butala:
Here, I’m going to take this back to the original point and we ask that person, what does it look like when you look way out there? Because I’ve asked people this in the past where I’ve had relationships with them and they will say something like, “What the hell are you talking about? Are you kidding me? What does our house look like? We’re going to live here forever.” I don’t want anything to change there. As far as work goes, oh, I’m just going to have this job that I have right now. I like it. I like my boss and I like the people that I work with, and I hope that it just… And then at the end of it, what they have said in the past is, “Why are you thinking that far ahead anyway?” This only works, these things that Jill’s telling you works between Jill and I, because we have real estate and our soul.
When we got here, we’ve been here for a week. We’re going to be here for several more weeks. She said while we were driving here in the RV, “What do you want to do when we get there first?” Because we’re in a place where there’s a lot of stuff to do. It’s a hiking mecca, hiking, biking, we have a motorcycle with us. There’s a lot of fun stuff I want to do. And I said, “Well, there’s these 14 pieces of property that I’ve been tracking on the internet that I would love to go look at.” And she said, “Me too.” So, you have a lot of hope when… And the person that Jill interviewed for the podcast that she’s talking about today works with her husband and it’s the same situation. They just have real estate in their soul, and so that’s pretty unusual and the odds are stacked against you that you can work with your spouse.
The odds are stacked against you that you’re going to be with your spouse forever. I’m not joking about this. This is tough. These are tough odds to beat. You got to have a lot of stuff going for you before anybody even opens their mouth in the first sentence, “Should we do this together?” So, I’m not trying to be negative. I’m just saying avoid a lot of problems and really just be honest with everybody. You want to buy and sell some land? Yeah, not really. I’d rather just be in this job.

Jill K DeWit:
Makes sense.

Steven Jack Butala:
“I’m just doing it for you.” That’s the last thing you want your spouse to ever say to you. “Yeah, for the last two months I’ve just been doing this for you. I’m not interested in doing this at all.” Maybe you could have told me that day one.

Jill K DeWit:
That’s funny, I can think of a handful of Land Academy members that are here, because they bought this for their wives like, “Yeah, that’d be something for my wife to do on the side and now I’m doing it.” Well, yeah, because they weren’t interested. They didn’t come up with it, it wasn’t their idea, and they may never get interested about it, and that’s okay. As long as they’re interested that you’re interested, that’s what counts. Since you started to talk about it, I have a couple things I want to [inaudible 00:26:07] and we’re doing the truth, because we don’t know how not to.

Steven Jack Butala:
That’s true.

Jill K DeWit:
Poor Greg’s like, “Thanks, you guys kind of…” Was it Greg or Chris? No, Chris.

Steven Jack Butala:
Chris.

Jill K DeWit:
Poor Chris like, “Thanks, she kind of chewed me up and spit me out on my idea.”

Steven Jack Butala:
You really didn’t.

Jill K DeWit:
I didn’t mean to, no.

Steven Jack Butala:
We have a Land Academy Pro member who eats these kinds of deals up. This is her specialty. It’s take these wonky… No ones ever going to do this deal unless you do it.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
And so, she’ll go talk to the person and convince her that we’re going to do this and sit everybody down, and she unravels deals and does really well financially.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
Anyway, Jill.

Jill K DeWit:
So, I want to talk a little bit about the truth and what could go wrong. What should I be watching for? Well, number one is you’re going to drive your friends nuts. Think about this, and you got to be really careful about this, because you’re going to be out to dinner, this is all you guys have to talk about.
Your friends are going to be like, “Oh gosh, do we have to go out with those two again?” That Jack and Jill, all they talk about are deals and even though it’s home run deals, I’m so sick of hearing about their land business. And if I hear one more time about how their transaction coordinator did fill in the blank…” So that’s the thing. It’s easy to slip into this weird world where this is all that you talk about and it spills into other things. And even for us, we have to… I’ll tell you right now, I get in the car and we’re going to dinner and we have rules about it. We’re like, “It’s very natural and very easy to go, “Now that I have you alone, I need to run this by you and this by you.” And so, we have very nicely said, “All right, I’ll give you this, but boy, when we pull into the parking lot, that’s it.” I’m like, “You are right.”

Steven Jack Butala:
We do that all the time, actually.

Jill K DeWit:
We do.

Steven Jack Butala:
Now that I’m thinking about it.

Jill K DeWit:
That’s a natural thing for us. I try not to. I try to get it done before we leave the door, but there is some time that… And we very nicely will say, “Can I talk to you about this?” We’ve learned you can’t just launch into the other person. You can say, “This is really in my mind. I’m having a struggle making a decision on this property, here’s why. I think access stinks. I know you looked at it. Can we talk about it for a minute and have a plan?” Sure, but like I said, we’re parking. Doors open, work stops.
So, you have to be mindful of that for yourselves and every single person around you or you will drive them bananas. The second thing is it’s going to get heated. You are 100% going to not agree on something and when you’re starting out, it might be something every day, at least every week. I can pretty much guarantee once a week when you’re starting a land company and you’re bringing in some family member, even if it’s not your spouse, oh, it’s going to get heated. You’re not going to agree and you’re going to both be finding yourselves digging in and you cannot let this break you up.

Steven Jack Butala:
So, what’s the point to getting in an argument of any kind? I can answer that. It’s to get out of the argument and to set up some parameters that everybody agrees to, not reluctantly. Everybody willingly agrees that this is what caused this, and this is what we need to do in the future to make sure that the percentages are higher that we won’t have this confrontation at all. The point is not to ever have confrontation. That’s not realistic. Everything’s to explode at some point if that happens. There’s going to be confrontation with any business partner that you have. The point is to say, “All right, what we’re arguing about is seller wants to do this. This is going to happen, this has to happen, and this has to happen.” And to which I say, whose responsibility is that? Is it your responsibility or mine? And I don’t care which one.

Jill K DeWit:
That’s where the trouble starts.

Steven Jack Butala:
That’s where the trouble ends, because that’s on your side of the sheet.

Jill K DeWit:
True. It’s true.

Steven Jack Butala:
Here’s some fast and simple, one-sentence things that Jill and I live by, and believe me, it did not start off this way. I know about this, because we’ve been working together for almost 15 years. Number one, do not work in the same space. Do not connect your desk. I don’t care, do not connect your zip code, quite honestly.

Jill K DeWit:
That’s good.

Steven Jack Butala:
Jill and I, when we’re not here, work in different zip codes, and what we just did yesterday-

Jill K DeWit:
Meaning back at home.

Steven Jack Butala:
Yesterday, Jill and I literally just went and got some office space, this office space sublease, and we got library cards, amazing, brand new library where we are right now with little rooms and stuff, and it doesn’t cost anything. It’s beautiful piece of real estate and a beautiful building, because we can’t work together. After a while-

Jill K DeWit:
Nor should we, it’s not bad. It’s not a bad thing.

Steven Jack Butala:
No, it’s not bad. After ton of time, you forget about this stuff, because at home we work separately and now we’re in a small space and she’s on the phone all day and I can’t stand it. So, I went and did something about it. Don’t work in the same place. Do not work on the same stuff. You have to have completely and totally separate responsibilities and the more separate, the better. I do data, she does sales, and anything to talk that has to do with a customer or talking of any kind, she handles. We don’t even talk about that anymore. And anything to do with data or accounting or finance or legal stuff or any of that, I handle, and she blindly trusts me. And the same here, I blindly trust her. And so, you see what I’m saying about how important this is that first point? Do you guys want to do this anyway? What kind of house do you want to live in?

Jill K DeWit:
There’s a lot to it.

Steven Jack Butala:
If you really… Jill and I now wake up in the morning wanting to accomplish stuff.

Jill K DeWit:
You know what’s funny about this? It sounds all dreamy. Here’s the thing, everybody’s like, “Oh, we want to be like you guys?” And I get it. I believe that and thank you. We’ve heard that often over the years. It does sound very dreamy when we started this like, “Wow, we could work together and share this bond and share the highs and share the lows.”

Steven Jack Butala:
Men have never had that thought.

Jill K DeWit:
I wasn’t referring to you.

Steven Jack Butala:
I don’t want to share highs and lows with you.

Jill K DeWit:
But you do share the, hey, the schedule and the flexibility like, “Hey…” Because come on, let’s be honest, you start this and what if you’re at some point you can leave your W-2… One of you leaves your W-2, but one of them stay at the W-2. You’re still tied to a W-2, so that’s going to slow you guys down. So that’s where it gets dreamy like, “Oh, wait a minute. If we’ve been successfully being able to make this work with one of us working full-time on the land business and replacing their income, what if both of us work full-time at the land business and replace the other income? Now, we are free.” So, that’s where I’m saying it sounds romantic and exciting, but you do need to really go into this with your eyes open and test it. And I do agree with there’s something to be said for being land people.
We both have the bug, and so we are so lucky. If one of us didn’t, if you were dragging me along all the time saying, “Did you call these people back? I’m waiting for these answers from the county,” because it involves talking. What if there’s something he’s waiting for me? He needs to know something from the county about some zoning or something like that, and it’s kind of my side of the sheet because it involves this and, “I’ll get to it, I’ll get to it.” Now, he’s nagging me. It just won’t work, because I don’t have the bug. But on the flip side, what I do have, which is really lucky that I can’t wait, we do really seriously drive around, look at property all the flipping time. It is so weird. I know it’s weird.

Steven Jack Butala:
It’s not right. It’s not healthy.

Jill K DeWit:
It’s not normal.

Steven Jack Butala:
It’s beyond a healthy level of real estate looking.

Jill K DeWit:
But you know, it’s who we are. I did the podcast today with Bei, and Bei and I talked about that. This is my life. She loves it. She’s so happy and that makes her so good at it, and that’s because she’s like, “I’ll handle anything.” I can’t remember what the term was, closing the circle she was using. You got to start this and keep closing the circle. You got to keep it going, always going. You can’t just start and stop. And I said, “Bei, that’s beautiful. You’re right.”

Steven Jack Butala:
You have to finish stuff.

Jill K DeWit:
And she’s like, “And you can’t let…” She said, “Just like anything you’re going to do, any business you’re going to start, you’re going to have obstacles, and struggles and there’s going to be things you have to overcome and you have to do it, period.”

Steven Jack Butala:
I’m trying to get through a list of simple stuff.

Jill K DeWit:
Sorry.

Steven Jack Butala:
Have you ever… You’re fixing the dishwasher or something like that, and your wife is standing over you and telling you how to do it better? “Well, if you crank that…” Because you’re struggling with it. I can’t get the nut off the pipe. “Well, if you do it this way and hold it that way,” and she’s standing over you for a half hour critiquing what you’re doing, that only ends one way. Everybody’s angry.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
What your wife needs to do is walk out of the room, maybe out of the house until it’s done. It might take you a half hour, it might take you three hours, and then it’s done, and she never knew. We referred to that as the transmissions out of the car. We say that sentence to each other every couple of months. “This doesn’t look right at all.” Yeah, because the transmission’s out of the car. It’s not done yet.

Jill K DeWit:
Walk away.

Steven Jack Butala:
Yep, get out of there.

Jill K DeWit:
I’m like, “I’m walking away now.”

Steven Jack Butala:
Not gender-specific [inaudible 00:35:44]-

Jill K DeWit:
And I usually walk away like this, like I don’t want to know… Why, what? It’s true.

Steven Jack Butala:
Here’s another thing, I believe that all talking will eventually lead to an argument. So, what do you do? You talk as little as possible. So, all the deals that Jill and I do and all the tasks and stuff that we have to get done, and believe me, it’s not a lot now, because we have staff and all that, but it used to not be that way. We put an Airtable, so we don’t talk about it.
She’ll say, “@Jack, I need to know about this, this, and this. I know you’ve done 62 deals in this area. Should we be doing this deal at 32,000 bucks or whatever the numbers end up being?” I get a little notification, I go in there, I look at the deal. No one’s talked about anything yet. There’s no verbal exchange. “Oh my God, yes, we should absolutely do this deal. In fact, I think we probably could pay 50 to $60,000 and still make 120 grand on it. Please purchase it within these parameters,” and then we never talk again. It’s the most beautiful thing ever. No talking within a professional relationship, in my opinion, is the best thing ever, unless there’s some really quirky, weird stuff. Most of the world believes that more communication is better, more clarification is better. Absolutely not for what we do here. I disagree with that.

Jill K DeWit:
Please tell me how we got to be on a podcast together based on your whole… I hate your whole speech-

Steven Jack Butala:
We’re not talking to each other.

Jill K DeWit:
Oh, okay. Oh, that’s it.

Steven Jack Butala:
We’re talking to them.

Jill K DeWit:
Oh, thank you. Okay, that’s it. Well, that’s great, babe. And the truth is, I wasn’t supposed to be sitting here, but here I am.

Steven Jack Butala:
It’s the truth. People that I had lined up several years ago, almost 10 years ago to be on the show, just kept not showing up.

Jill K DeWit:
Or they weren’t good.

Steven Jack Butala:
They would come downstairs. I’m like, “We got to do it again,” or they weren’t any good.

Jill K DeWit:
Or they really stunk.

Steven Jack Butala:
So then eventually, Jill, we went back to just once a week with Jill and the whole community said, “Hasn’t Jill with you?”

Jill K DeWit:
Oh, yeah.

Steven Jack Butala:
Then, it became the Jack and Jill Show-

Jill K DeWit:
That was sweet.

Steven Jack Butala:
… For a long time.

Jill K DeWit:
That’s really good. Hey, my last point is just make sure you don’t let this break you up. This beautiful thing, this path that you’re trying to do, going down, working together in your land business, you can’t let it sink the ship.

Steven Jack Butala:
Unless you think that you’re just saving a bunch of time, unless you just cut to the chase long before it ever got to be a point where you’d have to break up then 15 years later.

Jill K DeWit:
What are you talking about?

Steven Jack Butala:
Maybe working together with your spouse sped everything up and you found out what you were going to find out anyway 15 years later.

Jill K DeWit:
Holy Moly.

Steven Jack Butala:
Then, pat yourself on the back. Nice work.

Jill K DeWit:
Those of you watching my face right now are probably like, “Yeah,” at my face. Like, “What the heck?”

Steven Jack Butala:
We can wrap the topic up like this, it works for Jill and I. It took a lot of patience, a lot of practice, and a lot of screwing up.

Jill K DeWit:
And tears.

Steven Jack Butala:
And a lot of tears, and we figured it out. Is it for you? You’re going to decide, but I’ll tell you, you really need to be on the same page about where it’s all going eventually and when to stop, when to start, when to stop, what kind of deals you want to do if you’re really into it.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
Those are indicators of a relationship anyway, not just a professional relationship. It can work. We have multiple examples in our group of where it works. We have more examples where it didn’t work.

Jill K DeWit:
True.

Steven Jack Butala:
Jill, you have something to share?

Jill K DeWit:
I was thinking about the podcast I did with Bei earlier today, and, God, she’s such a sweetheart. You know what’s so great about Bei? Bei’s been with us so long. Every live event, Bei’s there. Bei’s been just every time we’re like, “Here’s what we’re pivoting to and why, and here’s what we’re working on now,” Bei’s like, “I’m on it. I’m following you. Okay, and now we’re doing this,” doing it, and she kills at everything she does. And so I was thinking, so today was more than a podcast. Today, it was me sitting down and getting to visit with my friend, which was so nice, and we were talking about just being an entrepreneur, and then it went to that next level. I’m like, “You know what, Bei? Hold on a moment. We need to pay attention to this, not just that we’re both entrepreneurs, but being a female entrepreneur is a whole nother level.”
And so, we really dug deep into that and I hope you listen to that. I don’t know when it’s going to air. It’s coming sometime in the next couple weeks, but watch for Bei Zhang, Z-H-A-N-G, B-E-I is her first name, and with me, and we were talking about, “Wow, you’re right,” because as a female, we are naturally tasked with other things, making sure the family’s taken care of it. We rattled off things like there’s work, there’s family, there’s our family’s health, there’s all these things, and often at the end of this, the very bottom of the list is our wellbeing, and we both talked about how important that is. So, it’s just so much that goes wrapped up into being female entrepreneur by nature. We can’t help but focus on all of those things, and I shared with Bei how I know that I’m guilty of saying yes too much. I still do that. I know I do that, I’ve given up.

Steven Jack Butala:
You mean taking on too much?

Jill K DeWit:
Yeah, that’s just who I am. I have a very hard time saying no, so that ship sailed, so I just deal with it. It’s clearly my happy spot.

Steven Jack Butala:
It’s a good thing you can’t get pregnant anymore.

Jill K DeWit:
Right? Oh, yes.

Steven Jack Butala:
You can’t say no.

Jill K DeWit:
Thanks. Yeah, it was my Indian name that he gave me a while back. Anyway, that’s another story, but we were just talking about the complexity of… And that layer-

Steven Jack Butala:
She can say that because she’s Cherokee, I don’t want all these angry emails coming to me.

Jill K DeWit:
True, I am allowed to say that. My card’s coming. So anyway, it was about that. Did you want to ask me anything about that?

Steven Jack Butala:
I think Bei, it goes without saying, you are and have been just a model investor. Forget about being a female investor, so I know that there’s a layer complexity on top of that, but that just makes you shine more. I think the tougher the road, the more the spoils. I don’t think that… If it comes easy, it’s just not as valuable. It’s just how it is. It’s everywhere in nature. There’s always a hunt.

Jill K DeWit:
Boy, that’s true. What about you? What do you want to share with us today?

Steven Jack Butala:
I am formally announcing through here and other places that Land Academy will be launched this fall.

Jill K DeWit:
You said-

Steven Jack Butala:
I’m sorry, Land Academy, ManPlan will be launched, manplan.com. You’re a man, you need a plan. I did a lot of research. I’ve written a lot. I’m in writing and filming right now on it, and there is no group that I can find on the internet that helps men or anybody who’s really interested in having a plan and being successful. It’s not just for men. Taking a step-by-step approach to accumulating a bunch of money, accumulating let’s say $10 million and how many real estate deals does it take, what do you have to do?
What are the things that you have to line up in your life? It’s not just about sending a mailer out like Land Academy is. There’s a huge component that’s behind the mindset of being wealthy and getting wealthy and-

Jill K DeWit:
That’s good.

Steven Jack Butala:
… And having an amazing life. You only get one turn around on this thing and that’s what it’s all about. I will actually be filming it on a motorcycle… It’s going to be very, very interesting. We will launch it in the fall. If you’re interested, go to manplan.com. It’s all set up now. Put your email address in there and you’ll get notifications about how it’s going and actual dates of when everything’s going to get released.

Jill K DeWit:
Awesome, I’m excited.

Steven Jack Butala:
Join us next Wednesday for another interesting episode, You Are Not Alone in Your Real Estate Ambition. We are Jack and Jill.

Jill K DeWit:
We are Jack and Jill.

Steven Jack Butala:
Information.

Jill K DeWit:
And inspiration.

Steven Jack Butala:
So, buy undervalued property.