Hire Only Experts (CFFL 0129)
Hire Only Experts
Jack Butala: Hire Only Experts. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It’s super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don’t even have to read it. Thanks for listening.
Jack Butala:
Jack Butala from Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow From Land show. In this episode, Jill and I talk about why you should only hire experts to help you succeed in the land business and probably really anything else for that matter. I think I’m including us in that. I know I am. Great show today. As always, we’re going to tell it just like we see it, call it like we see it. Before we get right to the topic, let’s take a question from a caller.
Jill DeWit:
Okay. Barry from Portland called in and asked, “I know I want to be in this business, and I’m thinking about my first property. Should I try on my own first? With a mentor? When will I know I’m ready?” Steven, you wanna weigh in first?
Jack Butala:
Yeah, my short answer is yes, yes and yes.
Jill DeWit:
Right.
Jack Butala:
Jill and I have had the great fortune of having a ton of members by now. I mean company’s, the Land Academy company is only a year old, Jill?
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
A year-and-a-half or so. The land company itself is a decade-and-a-half old, plus. We’ve got a lot of experience. What I’m noticing is that these first, what I call the first deal jitters, apparently what Barry has a little bit here from Portland. Getting past that first deal is a bigger issue than I thought it would be …
Jill DeWit:
It’s huge.
Jack Butala:
… for a lot of people, and a lot of our members.
Jill DeWit:
It’s huge.
Jack Butala:
Jill, go ahead. You always have a pretty consistent answer with this. Go ahead. Well, how would you answer it? I kinda answered it.
Jill DeWit:
Should I try on my own? Yes. With a mentor? Preferably. Gosh, when will you know you’re ready? You won’t. That’s what I say.
Jack Butala:
Like children.
Jill DeWit:
You don’t know you’re ready. You just have to dive in. It’s like jumping off the deep end. You’re going to jump in, you’re going to be fine, you’re going to swim, you’re going to be okay, but you have got to just do it. Yes, you’re going to be clunky at first, you might make a few mistakes at first.
Jack Butala:
You have to just do it, man.
Jill DeWit:
You might over pay for a mailer or something stupid, you know what I mean.
Jack Butala:
Not with us you won’t.
Jill DeWit:
You know what I mean. But you learn. You will figure it out.
Jack Butala:
Buy a property. If you are concerned about this, Barry from Portland. Buy a property, somewhere that you can find one, it doesn’t have to be from us or anywhere. Go on land watch, find the cheapest property you can find, I don’t know a couple hundred bucks, buy it. Deed it to your wife, have it deeded to yourself so you get all of that out of your system. In my opinion it is very easier to deed a property to someone than it is to register your car. Re-post it on land watch. Whatever your talents are, re-post it on land watch or anywhere else that you can find on the internet, Zilla, Trulia, for twice as much. If you are paying two or three or four hundred bucks, list it for 8 or 9 hundred, and take the best offer. Go through the whole process without the intention of making a ton of money but just to get it out of your system and just get past it.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
That’s my answer for that.
Jill DeWit:
That is exactly what I say too. Same thing. Then I tell people the same thing, it is funny because you can find things under $500. You’re not worrying about it, you only spent $500, kind of thing. If it takes weeks while you figure this out and then just sell, who cares.
Jack Butala:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jill DeWit:
You’re not spending $10,000 or $80,000. I think that is where people, I don’t know, they get hung up. They are going for some things that maybe they shouldn’t be going for yet. I agree with you Steven.
Jack Butala:
Somebody asked me this question a long time ago and it stuck with me obviously. This is what she said, she kept saying it over and over again, “How do you know, Steve? How do you know?” And I said how do I know what. “How do you know what you’re doing is going to work or that it works? How do you know?” What she was really asking me after she said it four times, or fourteen or something like that, it was enough for me to remember it over the years, what she was asking me was how do I pick the right property so that I know, you know, so that I know we are going to make at least double our money on it or maybe more, when I sell it. Here is the answer, I go and research what the stuff is worth based on comparable sales at the time. Either comparable sales or existing postings or I don’t know. You just do a bunch of research, it is pretty simple.
If you are looking at a couple of acres in Northern Arizona, and everything up there is selling for 3, 4, 5 thousand bucks, you want to be able to make sure you are buying it for 5 or 6 hundred dollars from somebody that doesn’t want it any longer.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
There is no mystery in it. You know what it is I think Jill?
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
I never went through this. I saw a property, I talk about this is the free ebook at landacademy.com. I bought a property on my coffee table from back east in Arizona. I did it in all of 30 minutes on ebay. That was the first deal I ever did, first land deal I ever did.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
I doubled or tripled my money. I didn’t have any trepidation when I was doing it.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
I don’t think you did either, the first deal that you did, I don’t even think you thought twice about it.
Jill DeWit:
That is usually me. I close my eyes and jump on things like this often. Sometimes I get myself into a pickle because I do not do enough research ahead of time. Not this kind of thing, I’m talking other … Boy, I am just throwing myself under the bus aren’t I.
Jack Butala:
I took exactly one golf lesson in my whole life. I am not a golfer at all. I cannot stand to fail at something for ten hours or whatever. The coach said, the trainer, the golf pro said, “You just kind of swing hard and hope for the best?” I turned around and looked at her and said that is exactly how I approach a lot of stuff in life.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
He started laughing but that is the truth.
Jill DeWit:
Some people have this analysis paralysis thing. I hear about it all of the time. That phrase is getting way over used. I have another idea, well I have two things to say, one is, to give a really good working example of me goofing myself up is, Steven has been known to take me on ski runs that are way too difficult than I can do.
Jack Butala:
Within days.
Jill DeWit:
The last seven days I was thrown into ski situations that are way beyond my talent level. I am not a skier, I am just going to say it right now. I am a good beginning and I do not strive to get anywhere beyond that, I am over it. I can do other things man, I can snow mobile like 90 miles an hour, watch out, put me on something like that. That is what I was kind of referring to.
Jack Butala:
You look good though.
Jill DeWit:
Thank you. That’s what I said, my favorite part of the skiing is kind of dressing up for it. They have really cute outfits. Anyway. My suggestion, I have one suggestion for Barry, get yourself a partner who is not afraid and together you guys can help each other. If you have someone who is not afraid and eager to go they will be able to say enough research, we are buying it. That is another good idea, way to do it.
Jack Butala:
Right.
Jill DeWit:
A mentor will help you with that too.
Jack Butala:
Or a community. Successplant.com is a site that Jill and I started for exactly to address these types of questions. It’s free. If you go there and get a user name, you can go out there and ask any questions that you want. Most of our existing, or some of our existing members I should say, are in there, answering questions and asking questions. Some have a thousand deals under their belt and some have not done any.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
It is a place to …
Jill DeWit:
It is a free resource, basically. It is for everybody. A lot of our people but everybody can get in and just ask them questions, ask away. It is really just kind of tailored to what we do. Our niche. We have all kinds of other things in there.
Jack Butala:
It is fun for us to watch because a lot of people just like Barry have some trepidation in the beginning. It’s not trepidation, it’s just jitters, that’s what I call it. Then they do one or two deals, then Jill and I don’t hear from them.
Jill DeWit:
No, then they’re gone.
Jack Butala:
We don’t hear from them for like four months, they do 25 deals, and then they come back and start to say you know what, this actually works.
Jill DeWit:
Right.
Jack Butala:
I am into it now. I have worked it all out. You guys were right, I made a bunch of mistakes. I am over it. Now let’s get it into third gear. I love that. That is the best feeling I can get as a helper, I don’t know what to call us anymore. We’re not mentors really. I don’t know what we are.
Jill DeWit:
I know what we are. Hey, did you see what Luke put in the other day?
Jack Butala:
No.
Jill DeWit:
Unless I read this wrong but I don’t think I did, I want to say Luke says he is right now averaging one sale a day.
Jack Butala:
You know what he put it in, not in success plant, but it was another … Was it in success plant?
Jill DeWit:
I read it in success plant. I was like …
Jack Butala:
Luke has been all over the internet really. Luke is affiliated with us, but we don’t pay him. He is …
Jill DeWit:
He is one of our people.
Jack Butala:
He put an apple on our desk, he is that kind of member.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
Man, this guy is just killing it. He came to us with a little bit of experience already but jeez.
Jill DeWit:
It is fantastic.
Jack Butala:
One a day?
Jill DeWit:
One a day.
Jack Butala:
You did not read that.
Jill DeWit:
Yeah, I read that. I’m like nice job Luke. Back to the topic if that is okay. How to find experts.
Jack Butala:
No, hire only experts.
Jill DeWit:
Oh, hire only experts.
Jack Butala:
Yeah, that is a better question. That is what we should have called it. How do you find an expert.
Jill DeWit:
You should hire only experts.
Jack Butala:
Let’s cover that too, quickly.
Jill DeWit:
You should be … Then how do you find them. My thought is, number one, research. Go out there, do some research. Are they credible. Have they done transactions. You want someone with a track record, how is that. Ask around too. Hopefully by word of mouth they come to you and I would talk to their customers. This is a good topic I think because it not only applies to just us but you’re in the flipping business, you need a contractor, you need a roofer, you need a painter, you need …
Jack Butala:
I was just going to say the same thing.
Jill DeWit:
You need to get it out there. Put it out there that you are looking for it. Hopefully by word of mouth … Usually that is a lot of the way we find people too for our stuff. Word of mouth.
Jack Butala:
Our office building is being completely renovated right now. Every time I walk where it is being … The common area is, not our offices but the common areas. Every time I walk through there I see the tradesmen, foremen, or general contractors supervisors … You can tell exactly who is into what they are doing and who just doesn’t want to be there. That is an expert in my opinion. It is not an expert like big picture expert, it is somebody who is laying tile but they are showing up for the job. You can clearly see that they are an expert and they are completely into what they are doing, they have no idea what’s going on in their surroundings, and I love that.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
There is one supervisor here, I don’t know if he smokes meth before he gets on his job or he has a personality disorder or both, but he is just screaming at somebody on the phone, not watching what is going on, this guy is not leading his crew. He’s just …
Jill DeWit:
I thought you just said it was a positive thing.
Jack Butala:
No, it’s not.
Jill DeWit:
I was ready for you to say he is killing it, he’s just whipping or clacking that whip.
Jack Butala:
He’s nuts.
Jill DeWit:
Oh, okay. Got it.
Jack Butala:
Anyway. In our business, we are very fortunate to have some full time people who are experts at the tiny little thing that they are responsible for. We also have virtual assistants, which I guess is now … We shouldn’t call them that anymore. We have outsourced people, with very specific tasks …
Jill DeWit:
It is a virtual assistant though.
Jack Butala:
… who are fantastic at what they do, yeah.
Jill DeWit:
I mean people understand that term now more than an outsourced employee. Isn’t that kind of funny. It used to be you had to explain what a VA was. Now everybody knows what a VA was. If you say something else they go, what?
Jack Butala:
We got to come up with something good because VA, it seems negative to me. Then outsourcing has been negative since the ’80’s or ’90’s when everything was kind of …
Jill DeWit:
Sounds like you’re doing it from India.
Jack Butala:
That is what it sounds like to me too, which is not a bad thing at all. I’m just saying. The way that we use VA’s and outsource is very task specific. When I hear virtual assistant it’s like, I don’t have an assistant in my office anymore, I have one that is virtual and they do all stuff, but they just don’t. It is all very task specific because they are good at those things. Hire an expert who is really specifically good at one thing, and manage a lot of them. If they are good you don’t have to manage them at all.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
I looked at the numbers before we did this show. We hire maybe 4-6 people before we actually end up with the one that is going to work for us.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
Then we eventually use them because somebody gets a hold of them and says you are great at this, I am going to pay just a pile of money to do it for me full time.
Jill DeWit:
I was going to say …
Jack Butala:
It’s like a baby sitter, you know, they grow up.
Jill DeWit:
That’s what I was thinking too. I wrote three notes about how to find and research at word of mouth. My number three and last item for this whole call was pray they don’t retire or move. Because that happens. You find a good handyman and then they are gone or they retire or something. It’s like, shucks. It is nice when you find them. That is the goal. Is to do everything like we talked about. Whatever it is. Keep them in your world. Use them. Be good to them, I guess. Pray they don’t go away.
Jack Butala:
Here are some good actual resources, like real time. Go to Odesk, O-D-E-S-K dot com, I think, or Google it, it might be dot net, something like that. They are good VA outsource. It’s kind of like a bidding situation. If you have a job to do, start a website or something, people bid on it and they lowest person gets the job or whatever. Another good resource, and Jill is going to kick me under the studio desk here …
Jill DeWit:
Fiver.
Jack Butala:
… is Fiver. It’s not … Fiver, the name is a little bit misleading. You may spend five dollars to get somebody to do a task, but what you are really doing is spending five dollars to see if they can do some stuff properly, and then you hire them to do things more consistently and for more money if they do a good job. The five dollars is just an entry level deal.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
I’ve hired some really poorly performing people on Fiver and I have found some total gems.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
You just have to play that game.
Jill DeWit:
It’s true.
Jack Butala:
Hire an expert. Don’t settle for anything less. This is a topic where nice guys finish last. You really just have to cut them off if they don’t work well.
Jill DeWit:
True. I was going to say to that a VA is not Siri. Just so you know. That does not count. When you find, like Steven said, when you find them keep them.
Jack Butala:
Treat them good. Treat them well.
Jill DeWit:
Treat them good. Keep them with you. There are a lot of flippers out there. I know they have really good contractors and I think they are almost afraid to share them because they don’t want them to get too busy.
Jack Butala:
Exactly.
Jill DeWit:
That’s what we do. We have our go to guys. We have a team and we have been using them now for years. They do our personal projects and stuff that we flip. It’s awesome.
Jack Butala:
I made a little short list of the experts that I have experienced in the past. Ones that I have had great experiences with and a short list of experiences I have had that are awful.
Jill DeWit:
Right. Yeah.
Jack Butala:
I am going to share them and then you do the same thing.
Jill DeWit:
Okay, go ahead.
Jack Butala:
To this day, I have never been able to find a property manager that really works long term. Why is that?
Jill DeWit:
Do you know what I think?
Jack Butala:
Go ahead.
Jill DeWit:
I think that’s, because I see people using that as a stepping stone to get into this business, I think that’s …
Jack Butala:
That’s what I said.
Jill DeWit:
… it’s possibly considered an entry level position. I don’t want to tick off any property managers that have been in it long term, but I wonder if people look at that as a stepping stone. Just a way to get a paycheck coming in while they are learning the business. That is one reason I have.
Jack Butala:
It’s a strange in the middle position to be in. You’re not an investor, you’re not an agent. It’s kind of almost a too comfortable … This is what I think, you’re not motivated by money. Once you sign the contract to manage a building or a house or whatever it ends of being, you are just kind of there, and not motivated by anything to really do a good job.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Unless it’s your business and you’re building up your clientele.
Jack Butala:
If that’s the case, and this is what I have seen with property managers, that’s a great point, what they are really good at is getting property management contracts.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
They’re not good at actually managing it.
Jill DeWit:
Yeah.
Jack Butala:
Anyway. It’s in the middle. I have had great real estate agents, I do have a great real estate agent right now, and I have had a slew of pretty awful ones.
Jill DeWit:
I have seen a lot of awful ones, they just aren’t committed. That’s what I see.
Jack Butala:
I see a lot of agents that are interested in curtains, curtain rods, and window treatments and not interested in the economics of a deal.
Jill DeWit:
Right.
Jack Butala:
What else. I see, I mean I have example after example of great real estate investors, on all types of property. For some reason, it’s a really unique set of skills.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
I also have a huge, well a pretty large number of friends and colleagues who are extremely successful at what they do who would not touch real estate as an investment.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
They think it is too slow. It doesn’t make enough money. You have to have some patience. People that flip broker companies and stuff.
Jill DeWit:
Right.
Jack Butala:
I don’t know where this path is going.
Jill DeWit:
I don’t know where you are going with this either.
Jack Butala:
I know you’re falling asleep over there.
Jill DeWit:
No, it’s all good. What was the …
Jack Butala:
Join us in another episode where Jill and I discuss your all important success in property investment and in life. It made sense to me.
Jill DeWit:
Okay, I’m glad. As long as in your head that you got this. I am sure there is three people out there that followed right along and we just cut them off.
Jack Butala:
Right.
Jill DeWit:
Just kidding. No, that was really good though. I appreciate that. It is important for people to take the time, do your homework. Just because somebody says, here’s a good point, wish I would have brought it up earlier, just because somebody says they’re an expert and they put it on their website or whatever it is, doesn’t mean they are. Please check their track record. Please make sure. How many transactions have they done. I’m an expert, I’ve done three. Really.
Jack Butala:
I am going to tell a story really quick and I am not going to name any names. Jill, you’re going to laugh.
Jill DeWit:
Okay.
Jack Butala:
Jill and I get invited constantly to be guests on peoples podcasts. There is this guy that has, for whatever reason, has a reasonably successful real estate based podcast. He has surrounded himself with a lot of people that schedule guests for him. They schedule us because it is a logical … There are professional schedulers out there that go an schedule like kind people to be on each other’s shows. Jill, if you’re a consistent listener, you would know we don’t have a ton of guests on our show but we get invited a lot and we are on other people’s shows quite often. This host and us, for whatever reason, it trips the radar on these schedulers.
Jill DeWit:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jack Butala:
We have been scheduled on this guys shows many times. I don’t think he looks to see that we are scheduled. The last time, which is the most recent time, many times we have been scheduled on the show, we are all sitting in front of the microphones waiting, and he cancels literally the last minute.
Jill DeWit:
Right.
Jack Butala:
I am not going to name any names. I called him on it this last time, sent a pretty scathing email and said we are taking you off our list man. This is ridiculous. At best, it’s unprofessional. I really think what’s going on is he finds out who he is going to talk to, exactly what you just said Jill, where you have all of this experience and a very successful podcast and he’s like I cannot even hold a candle to these guys.
Jill DeWit:
A little bit intimidated.
Jack Butala:
I’m sure they are going to ask me some hard, real questions like how many deals have you done, and he is going to have to say …
Jill DeWit:
Ten.
Jack Butala:
Zero.
Jill DeWit:
Right.
Jack Butala:
I bet it’s zero with this guy.
Jill DeWit:
Oh, that’s true too. Because people talk about it and they have people on it, but they don’t necessarily do it. It’s just a topic that they like. Got it. I agree.
Jack Butala:
On that note, let’s go buy some investment property.
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