Impressive Automation with Our Succesful Member Joe McCall
Jack Butala: Impressive Automation with Our Succesful Member Joe McCall. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It’s super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don’t even have to read it. Thanks for listening.
Jill DeWit: Jack and Jill here, from the Cash Flow From Land Show. Today we have with us Joe McCall. Joe has flipped several hundred deals and help students flip hundreds more. He loves doing deals and coaching students to do the same. He has been fortunate to receive more student testimonials than he can count. Joe invests remotely in multiple markets. He loves creating automated marketing systems. I have a lot of questions about that. Thank you Joe, glad you’re with us today.
Joe McCall: Thank you, Jill. Steve, are you there?
Steve: I am, I’m here.
Joe McCall: All right, nice.
Steve: I love automated marketing systems too.
Joe McCall: I know, man. I couldn’t do what I do without it.
Steve: You know, when people click on the thing and they check out and there’s money. That’s the kind of automated system I like.
Joe McCall: Yes, that’s true. There’s different kinds of businesses in real estate. When you’re wholesaling houses, that’s one of the the hardest things to automate, I think, because you are dealing with people. Every house is different. You’ve got buyers, you’ve got sellers, you’ve got lenders, you’ve got title companies, you’ve got wholesalers that you’re dealing with. I’ve been fortunate enough to find a way to automate all of that stuff.
Steve: Share it with us. I can’t wait to hear this.
Joe McCall: It involves using people. You can’t get away from people. The bottom line … I’ll just tell you my story real quick, I’ll try to be fast. By the way, I’m honored to be on your show, guys. I’ve listened to a ton of your podcasts. You’re one of my favorite podcasts. In fact, my favorite podcast app is called Pocket Casts, and you’re always at the top when I open up my app because you come out with new episodes all the time, which is really smart. People can’t forget you because you’re always at the top of their feed.
Jill DeWit: Wait, isn’t it because of me that they don’t forget us? Just kidding.
Joe McCall: Well, Jill, you are the star of the show.
Jill DeWit: Thank you.
Steve: Jill’s the lead singer, and I’m the guitarist in the back.
Joe McCall: Anyway, I started out … I bought a bunch of courses and signed up for coaching, I was one of those seminar junkies. I would buy everything and go to every webinar and boot camp. Spending a ton of money on education and not making anything. Finally, my back was against the wall, I had bought a bunch of houses when it was easy. The market crashed, I went with it, and I had a serious cash flow problem. I started wholesaling houses regularly, but I was getting real frustrated with throwing away so much money after dead marketing. I realized early on the importance of marketing. We are not in the real estate business, we’re not in the land business. We’re in the marketing business, plain and simple. No matter what kind of deals you’re doing, you’re in the marketing business. That’s who you are if you want to have success in this business. You’ve got to be an expert at marketing and lead generation. Which you guys are, and your letters work like crazy. Almost too well, were getting overwhelmed with leads right now and deals.
Anyway, I realized early on the importance of marketing. I started doing tons of postcards, and I realized that if I don’t get somebody else to do it for me, it’s just not going to get done. I started creating systems to get marketing done, what I call, “For you, in spite of you.” Right about 2008, 2009, I started wholesaling lease options because I got tired of throwing away tons of leads that didn’t have any equity. I started tying them up as a lease option, and then flipping the lease option to a tenant buyer. I did that in 2009 and doing that part time replaced my income and my full-time job and that’s when I quit. I was a civil engineer working for a big electrical contractor building power plants. I quit my job in 2009 when the economy was at its worst, it was free-falling. I’ve never looked back since, it’s been awesome.
Back then, I created what I wanted to have as a vision for my life. I didn’t want to be tied behind a desk. I wanted the freedom to travel. We wanted to homeschool our kids, we have four kids. We wanted to get an RV, and just go anywhere we wanted. Fast forward till about 2013. We took our whole family, my wife and our four kids, to Prague. We went to Prague, in the Czech Republic, for almost 3 months. We traveled around Europe a little bit while we were there. While I was there, I was able to do deals in the United States, and I thought “This is pretty cool. This is awesome.” I started getting these systems in place to automate my business for me. Came back a year later, we took a three-month RV trip through the northwestern quarter of the US and saw a ton of different national parks. It was really amazing.
It was right about this time that I started … I still was talking to sellers, I was still the one talking to buyers, right? Even though I was doing it virtually from my RV. I decided, I need to figure out a way, I listed everything I’ve got to do, and I just asked myself a simple question. How can I do none of this? That asking the right questions kind of got me on this journey to automating my marketing and automating my systems. I discovered Podio, which I fell in love with. Podio allows me to run all my different businesses on one platform. The project management, the collaboration, the CRM, it’s all kind of there together. What I’d started doing is I partnered with local wholesalers. Local, boots on the ground people. Now, the way I run my business, my wholesaling business. My land deals are kind of the same now too. For my wholesaling business, I have my assistant who sends out the marketing. We sent out a lot of yellow letters and postcards for the houses. For the land, we only send blind offers, just like you teach.
Joe McCall: For houses, I tried sending blind offers for houses, and it does not work.
Joe McCall: I had a real hard time. Maybe I didn’t give it a good enough shot. It didn’t work that well for me.
Steve: We do it all the time, it works pretty well.
Joe McCall: Maybe I need to revisit it. It’s just maybe some limiting beliefs. I’ll tell you what I’m doing now. I send out yellow letters and postcards. I know you love yellow letters, Steve, but I send them out anyway. The phone rings, my VA in the Philippines who has really good English, she answers the phone and prescreens all the leads. She just asks three or four basic questions, puts them in Podio, and we do this in several different markets, and then sends the lead in Podio to my local wholesaler. My local wholesaler, my boots on the ground guy, is a guy that already does a whole bunch of deals. He just doesn’t like the admin stuff. He doesn’t like doing the marketing. He doesn’t like prescreening a ton of leads, but he’ll take the prescreened leads, call the sellers back, go look at the house if it’s a motivated deal seller, get it under contract and flip it to one of their buyers, and then we split it 50-50. That’s how I’m doing on my deals right now.
Steve: Wow, that’s amazing.
Joe McCall: So that’s your system. You’ve still got people involved. I’ve got an assistant doing the marketing, an assistant prescreening the leads, and a local wholesaler flipping them. I’m just kind of in the background orchestrating it. That allows me to travel. We went to Europe again last summer for three months, and we traveled a ton. We went to France, we went to nine different countries and had a really, really good time. That’s what I do now. I work from home and I do my podcast. That was a long introduction, I hope that answered your question.
Steve: No, that was great. It’s great. From a dollar standpoint, what do you personally net per deal without really being involved at all?
Joe McCall: I just did a deal, I can send it to you, I made $5670 on a deal we closed on last Friday. 5670. On average, you’re looking at 3 to 6 grand. 4 grand, let’s say. An average deal. We’ll average 3 to 4 deals a month. I’m not a big volume guy, I don’t want to have a big business. I keep it real simple. I have a couple local assistance in an office I don’t even go too hardly. I should go there more. Then I have some virtual assistants. I also do a coaching business. It’s not just the deals business, where I get most of my income. Probably, if I were to be honest, 25 to 35% of my income comes from deals and 65 to 75% comes from my podcast, my marketing services, and my coaching.
Steve: That’s great. We make about $10,000 per wholesale house deal too.
Joe McCall: Yeah.
Steve: You know, I do take a couple of phone calls on that. We only deal with … The people that we sell it to our people that we’ve known for years and years and years. I just got off other call where Jill and I were talking about stepping up business up because all we have to do is send out twice as much letters, which takes 10 more minutes a month.
Joe McCall: That’s who wins in this business. Whoever does most marketing, wins. It’s a simple as that.
Steve: Yeah, exactly. What’s next? What are you going to work on next? It’s great stuff.
Joe McCall: Well, I love the land business. I caught the land bug about 3 to 4 months ago. People ask me all the time, because I have a course on lease options and another course on wholesaling. People ask me, “should I buy your course or that course?” I always say buy all of them because everybody has a different perspective. You’re going to learn something from everybody when you do that. I’m a big believer in investing in education. I bought four courses on land. I was telling you this before we started, to be politically correct I have to say I like all of them, but yours is one of the best. How’s that?
Jill DeWit: Thank you very much.
Joe McCall: I’m good friends with the other guys. I took these courses, I went through them, and then I gave them to one of my main assistants. I have another couple that I work with that we’re kind of like partners in the land business. I just said, “Here it is, go through this and let’s start implementing it.” I was really emphatic with this with them. I think this is important everybody listening. Don’t start worrying about steps 7 and 8 before you start doing steps one and two. There is a lot of stuff in the Land Academy course, but don’t worry about those last chapters, just start getting the letters out and you’ll figure it out as you go.
We took massive action, just started sending tons of offers. We got an offer … I won’t go into all the details, but we started getting some offers accepted and we realized we were offering too much. So, okay, well, sorry. We lowered our price, and then kind of just trial and error. You figure out, that wasn’t working, let’s change it a little bit and now it’s starting to hum along pretty well.
Jill DeWit: I’ve got to ask, Joe, did our program … I’ve heard this. We’re, as you know, a little bit different in what we do. We’re not all philosophy. We’re really more of … We’re really going to show you how to do this. Oh, and by the way, here’s the data. We are going to not only to show you how to do it, we’re going to give you of all the tools to do it. I’m hoping the answer is yes. Did we fill in all the holes and finally give you everything you needed to just really do this and jump in?
Joe McCall: Yes, you sure did. Now, if I could give one piece of good, constructive criticism.
Jill DeWit: Yeah.
Joe McCall: If that’s okay, on a podcast, like I’m not sound like a jerk.
Jill DeWit: We can bleep it out if we don’t like it. It’s all good, just kidding.
Joe McCall: There’s a thing on my Mac, it’s called MySpeed. I speed through videos. I just wish your videos were a little shorter, like more condensed. If you could have maybe a fast start guide. Just do a two hour webinar or video of like, real quick, a deal from beginning to end, that someone can just watch from the beginning and get a, “Oh, that’s what this is all about.” Does that make sense?
Jill DeWit: Yes. My question though, I was thinking too, I wonder how much of that is you?
Joe McCall: Yeah, so I’m a little impatient.
Jill DeWit: Well, no, no. I wasn’t going to say that. I was going to say how much of it is you … This is not new to you. You know what I mean?
Joe McCall: Yeah, that’s a good point. If you go too fast, then you might overwhelm people.
Steve: We are in the process of actually filming a new program for house flippers and one for people who are trying to buy a new house or move, just regular homeowners who want to find a house that substantially marked down. That’s the number one thing on my list, is to make the packages much shorter. We covered a ton in that original Cash Flow From Land program.
Joe McCall: Which is phenomenal. I don’t mean to sanding negative.
Steve: No, it’s good. I fast-forward through YouTube videos all the time. I have no patience at all.
Jill DeWit: He’s always telling me, can you get this up quicker. Just kidding.
Joe McCall: That is hard, because I love to teach, right? Sometimes, when I’m teaching, I go into way too much detail. It’s hard to figure out that fine balance of just telling students what they need to know to get them to the end goal as quick as possible. That’s tough. People don’t realize, they see your course, you guys put so much blood, sweat, tears, and effort into that course. Am I right?
Jill DeWit: Yes.
Steve: It took a year. It took a year to do that.
Joe McCall: It’s amazing, the amount of work that goes into creating a course. Why on earth would you want to do that? It’s just easier, in many ways, to just continue doing deals yourself. My point is this, I thank God for gurus. I know gurus get bashed, and I talk about this on my podcast sometimes. It’s unfortunate because if it wasn’t for that guru that I bought that late-night infomercial course, way back, who was willing to stick his neck on the line and teach people what he knew … Who cares if he is not doing deals now? He did a bunch of deals then and he’s a really good teacher, and he’s a really good teacher. He’s teaching the stuff now, and who cares if he makes more money teaching than he does doing deals? His stuff is good. I bought those courses, and I learned from them, and I started in implementing that stuff and doing deals. I don’t like jumping on the bandwagon of bashing gurus. I’m okay with bashing stupid gurus that are stupid, are idiots.
Steve and Jill, you guys have put so much work into that course. It’s a great quality course. If I were to … I can’t say that, because I need to be politically correct. Your course, your Land Academy course, is definitely the must-have of all the material that’s out there with courses.
Steve: That’s super nice of you to say Joe, I really appreciate it. The vast majority … Not the majority, let’s say 50 or 60% of the members that we have at Land Academy have come to us from our two or three like-kind information sources. The thing that’s real different, and quite honestly I’m even more proud of than the packages, is the data and the printing subscription/membership that we provide through RealQuest. That’s where the real value is. We’ve got the education and we also provide the professional grade tools to get deals done.
Joe McCall: We use the … data to doorstep, is that what it’s called?
Steve: Yes, data to doorstep.
Joe McCall: We use that. It’s good stuff.
Steve: That’s great, have you had a positive experience with that? Everybody seems to just love it.
Joe McCall: We still do our own mail, right? I have a local printing house that we use for our mail. We use it for the data, with RealQuest professional. It’s cool, I’m kind of a data nerd as well. You can’t get that list anywhere else. You can’t get that data anywhere else for cheaper. Even with Listsource , you can’t get that stuff … I don’t know if this is intentional or an accident, but if you go to Listsource and try to buy a list for land, you cannot do an improved value of zero.
Steve: Yeah, the difference between us … this is almost sounding like a commercial, and it wasn’t intended for this. The difference between RealQuest and everything else, is that you’re literally accessing an assessor’s database. There is lines and lines of data that you don’t get. I say it all the time, you should never buy a list. Really, what you’re buying if you buy on the Internet, is an ownership list. That’s it. Without the assessed values and a bunch of other things you really can’t send out effective letters. What ends up happening is you waste money on postage. So yeah, thank you.
Joe McCall: Good resource, good resource.
Jill DeWit: Thank you. The people that you coach, do they do everything? Are they doing mostly house flipping? Land?
Joe McCall: No, I don’t teach or coach on land. I don’t plan to either. I got into land because they want to build a passive income without owning a rental cup property. Without owning a house. Right now, I’d say we have about five properties under contract. We’re right now in the middle of advertising and selling them. The first one or two that we put up are in Colorado. We’re getting, already within a week, a bunch of calls on them. Right now we’re just focusing on wholesaling. Flipping them for quick cash. Then we’ll start selling them on terms, which is my ultimate goal. My ultimate goal is to have 10 grand a month in income from notes from land. When I coach people it’s more on wholesaling systems. I even have a course on Podio that teaches people how to use Podio in their business, PodioJoe.com. It’s been a couple of years since I updated that, but it’s still relevant. Podio is a fantastic tool. I’m coaching people and systems and marketing. How to, in their house flipping business, how to create the systems where they can wholesale deals while they are traveling, or a while there at the beach in Barcelona, or at a Starbucks café, it doesn’t matter.
Steve: Hey, I’ve got a quick technical question on Podio. People keep saying how great it is.
Joe McCall: Yeah.
Steve: How customizable is it from start to finish? Could you really, if you spent hours and hours in there, make it into a relational database that handles everything from CRM to management to everything?
Joe McCall: Yeah. It’s just a drag-and-drop. It’s very customizable, that’s why I love it. Is like a drag-and-drop, so if you look at it on the left you have all your different fields. Text field, date field, number field, money, a link field, a map field, etc. Different fields, and you drag them over to the right and you drop them where you want for whatever you want to track. I have, they’re called workspaces. With workspaces, they’re very flexible. You can share workspaces with people or exclude them. I have a workspace for land. In fact, I have different workspaces for land in different states. I have a workspace for lease options. I have a workspace for wholesaling by city. I have a workspace for my coaching business. I have a workspace for my admin stuff. You know, like our meeting minutes and standard operating procedures and stuff like that. It’s very customizable to track whatever you want to track.
It communicates very well and integrates very well with Google Drive or Dropbox, Evernote, Google calendar, so you can get all your stuff to show up in your calendar. There are some really good, simple workflows that you can create in the background. Like, when this happens, do this. The only thing that it doesn’t do, that I wish it did, it doesn’t have an email database, like systems, to send out automated responder emails. What you have to do is, you set up a link between Podio and Mail Chimp for example. When you put an email and Podio it sends it to Mail Chimp. Then you have to go to Mail Chimp to send out the emails. Does that make sense?
Steve: Yeah, that’s a pretty easy fix.
Joe McCall: There’s things like Zapier that you can use to pull things out of Podio into whatever. I like it a lot because I don’t want to have to fit into someone else’s box. I want to create my own box. Maybe you want to be a cylinder or a pyramid or whatever. I like the flexibility. You don’t have to be a coder to figure it out. It’s very simple and straightforward. In fact, if you want, we can schedule this out to the podcast here, I’ll do a little tutorial ear and show you what I have going on in Podio if you want.
Steve: Yeah, I’ll definitely look into it and probably schedule something with you. That would be great.
Jill DeWit: I want a funny story. Give me any funny recent thing, like a disastrous flip or … I don’t know, something. You know, you always have those deals, like how did we get involved in that? You know, right?
Joe McCall: Yeah. I’m trying to think … Every rehab I’ve done, I’ve lost money on.
Jill DeWit: Oh, there we go.
Joe McCall: Is that funny? That’s hilarious, isn’t it?
Jill DeWit: No, it’s sad, but we …
Steve: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Why? Why did you lose money?
Joe McCall: Because I bought them at the height of the market, and I was counting on appreciation. I ignored all the fundamentals, and that’s why. I was counting on appreciation, the margins were slim. I underestimated the rehab, overestimated the sale price. I borrowed too much debt. I got in over my head. This was back in 2008 …
Steve: That’s about all the mistakes that you can make, good work.
Joe McCall: Yeah. That’s hilarious. [inaudible 00:23:42] now, I got that off my chest. I don’t know anything about the deals we do today. I don’t. I have my assistant that sends out the marketing, my VA that prescreens the leads, and my local wholesaler that does the leads, that flips them. We split the deal 50-50. I could dive in, I could go into Podio and look at it.
The other thing I do, by the way, that’s really important, is I have a VA that does all my follow-up. We sent an offer to every lead that comes in. We send them an offer in the mail. We follow-up with them every month. We send them a text message. Sometimes we do a sly dial, which leaves them voicemail. Sometimes we’ll just mail them a letter or postcard every month following up. We are relentless with a follow-up.
I can’t tell you anything about all of the deals that I’ve done. I know more about my students deals. I get more excited about that. I’m sure you guys are the same, when you see a student do their first deal, it’s like I’m jumping up and down, I’m giving my kids high five. I get super jazzed about seeing students that I’ve had a little impact, I’ve taught them things, and they’re actually out doing deals and they quit their job. They’re able to spend more time at home with their family. That’s what really gets me excited.
Steve: I completely agree with you. I’ve been saying this for years, there is no better feeling in the world than parental pride. You know, when your kids accomplish something. There is a version of that one people that you’re working with really start to get it and succeed at it. Yeah, I completely agree. It’s really funny, Jill and I were just joking about that. There seems to be three stages of our members. The first one is they don’t believe it or they have some serious skepticism. That stage one, they’re in the research stage. There like, “I don’t understand.” It’s not, “I don’t understand”, but they’re just concerned. Then step two is they start getting calls back from a mailer. Then step three is we don’t ever hear from them again because they’re making so much money. It’s just over.
Joe McCall: Isn’t that frustrating? Guys, what happened? That is one bad thing about coaching, is when they start doing deals they don’t call you anymore. You don’t talk to them. You’re like, “I wonder what they’re doing?” That is awesome, you get guys like … One of my clients today just did his first deal and made two grand, okay? 2 grand. That’s not a lot of money, but that is a lot of money. You know? $2000, you can have a very nice expensive dinner with $2000, right? He’s excited about it, he’s jumping off … I’m so happy for him, too, because I just know this guy. That’s just adding fuel to the fire. It’s lighting him up and he’s going to go out there and do more marketing and talk to more sellers and make more offers. That’s exciting. I wish … Anybody listening to this, if you’ve done deals with Steve and Jill’s stuff, send them an email, send them a letter or video. Let them know the success that you’re having. It will help them to spread their message to get more people into the Land Academy world and help them do more deals. I’m telling you, especially in land, the market is huge. People need to know more about it.
Steve: Well said. We see the data reports. We can see in our Pro membership, We can see who pulls data and who uses the printing. I can tell you there’s lots of people in there that are pulling a lot of data and a lot of printing month after month after month and we haven’t talked them in several months. I don’t think they’re doing it just for fun.
Joe McCall: Right, right. That’s good. It’s really good. You guys are doing a great job.
Steve: Thanks, man.
Joe McCall: You should be really proud of what you created.
Steve: Joe, where can we find on the Internet?
Joe McCall: My podcast is probably the best place. I just updated my website too. Realestateinvestingmastery.com. I’ve been doing that podcast since 2011. Realestateinvestingmaster.com. JoeMcCall.com is my other site. I have three or four different courses. I don’t really have a place where I can send somebody yet where they can get all of them or look at them. It’s just kind of as I decide to release one or revise one I let it out. But real estate investing mastery, my podcast, is probably the best place to go. I should have you guys on my show.
Steve: Yeah, that would be fun. Send us a link I’d be happy to be …
Jill DeWit: We’d love it.
Joe McCall: I will send you an email and put it in Skype right after we’re done here.
Steve: I know you don’t want to do work or anything like that, but send us a link.
Joe McCall: I’ll have my people contact your people.
Jill DeWit: That’s right. That’s actually in a system that Joe has. It’s going to be automated here in a minute.
Joe McCall: Right.
Steve: Hey, great talking to you, Joe. Thank you so much.
Joe McCall: Great talking to you guys too. I appreciate it.
Steve: Okay. See you.
Joe McCall: Thanks.
Steve: Good show.
Jill DeWit: That was fun. You know, it’s always fun talking to someone that found us. He’s been in our little world, doing our thing, using the data and all that good stuff, And I wasn’t really sure who he was. I’m like, “Oh, he has a show. I didn’t know that.” You know?
Steve: That’s how our guest finding service, which is really people in our staff, found him. They don’t have any idea that he’s a member.
Jill DeWit: Right. Exactly.
Steve: I think that happened earlier this week, too, right?
Jill DeWit: I think so. Oh gosh yes. That’s right. We did have one earlier where it wasn’t one of our people in our Land Academy world.
Steve: It wasn’t a member, but he had bought a property from us.
Jill DeWit: It was a customer who had bought something from us. That was so darn funny. That was really cool. I’m like, “Oh wow, that’s great.” Isn’t that funny? He’s like, “I bought it from you for 400” Then I think I did the math and he sold it for 2400. I’m like, “Nice job. Way to go.”
Steve: You know what I really got out of that call with Joe is following up with some type of correspondence for people who just called in but we never ended up buying their property. Maybe send them a note every six months. I never thought about doing that.
Jill DeWit: Well, let me think about that. Why did we not buy the property? I always thought that was kind of a house thing. There still living in it, why aren’t you moving thing. It’s not just something sitting way over there.
Steve: I guess you would only do it for sellers that really wanted to sell, but you couldn’t get together on the price.
Jill DeWit: Hmm, right. You know, they come …
Steve: There is not that many actually, now that I’m thing about it. The reason we don’t close deals with people is because legal reasons. It’s not in their name …
Jill DeWit: Or we don’t agree on the price. That might be a thing, but then they come back, is that what you’re saying?
Steve: I don’t know. I don’t think price is the main reason … just sheer numbers. Of all the deals that people call in or send the stuff back I think price is very low on the list about why we don’t close the deal. I think it’s mostly not price, It’s some other thing that goes on.
Jill DeWit: Like it’s impossible to close this deal.
Steve: Yeah, because the person cannot live any longer that owns it or any of those little legal type things.
Jill DeWit: Right. Sometimes, I know we’ve had that, where the legal fees to do it might cost more than the properties worth. Now the deal doesn’t make sense. I hate those because I feel bad. I’m like, “Sorry, I wish I could help you.”
Steve: I was super excited when he said that, but now I’m not as excited anymore, Jill.
Jill DeWit: But what? Oh, about the following up?
Steve: Implementing a follow-up, an automatic follow-up thing.
Jill DeWit: Yeah, have to …
Steve: You didn’t see it at all, did you? You didn’t feel it at all?
Jill DeWit: No. You know why? Because I didn’t see it for what we do. You know what, Stephen, here’s my reasoning. I have enough fresh deals coming across my desk and my team all the time that I don’t need to revive anything.
Steve: Yeah, the last thing we need is more deals.
Jill DeWit: Right? I took the cream of the crop. Every time it comes across, we take the cream of the crop and we move on. How great is that?
Steve: Right. Anyway, interesting to talk to an existing successful member. On accident.
Jill DeWit: I know, I love it. That was great.
Steve: Let’s go buy some property.
If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to email me directly at steve@LandAcademy.com.
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