Land Academy Member Dan Smart Interview (LA 1780)
Land Academy Member Dan Smart Interview (LA 1780)
Transcript:
Steven Butala:
Steve, and Jill here.
Jill K DeWit:
Hello.
Steven Butala:
Welcome to the Land Academy Show. Entertaining land investment talk. I’m Steven Jack Butala.
Jill K DeWit:
And, I’m Jill DeWitt, broadcasting from the Valley of the Sun.
Steven Butala:
Today Jill and I talk with, or interview Dan Smart. He’s in Washington State, Land Academy member for a while now, and former career path. I think you were career path too. A couple, about last time…
Daniel Smart:
Yeah, Career Path Three.
Steven Butala:
Welcome to the show, Dan. We’ve never interviewed before, and I’m looking forward to hearing what you like, and don’t like about Land Academy. Let’s start there. What do you like, and not like about Land Academy?
Daniel Smart:
Well, there’s mostly like. I mean, there’s not a whole lot I don’t like. So, I started about a year ago, year and a half ago. It’s just very personal, and very… I mean, we have our, the way that we do land, but there’s so many niches. There’s so many directions you can go, and that’s just very exciting.
Jill K DeWit:
How did you find us?
Daniel Smart:
You know, it was kind of a roundabout way. So, it was right after COVID, and everything. I was a pharmacist prior to this, Clinical Pharmacist, and you know, healthcare just got hammered. Healthcare workers got hammered. I was a contractor for the Navy, and had a lot of vacation, had my own office. But then, the contracts renewed, and they took away most of the vacation. They started decreasing pay, and it wasn’t going to be sustainable.
Daniel Smart:
So like, “Okay, what are we going to do? Real estate, you know, rentals.” So, we were looking into that, and we almost threw our money away with that. We were looking crazy places, even Detroit to buy rentals. I was almost ready to fly, and meet some guys to invest with. They lived in Detroit, and then COVID hit, and gosh, we couldn’t fly anywhere.
Daniel Smart:
So, just listening to more interviews, and then I saw, I don’t remember. I think it was a Luke Smith interview about land. And, I was like, “Oh, that sounds more my style. No people, no houses.” And, he mentioned Land Academy at some point in one interview. And, I had been looking at other things, and I had actually sent out a mailer, based on free education from another program. And, it was based on assessed value.
Daniel Smart:
So, I was sending offers for 300 bucks for a $80,000 parcel. And, that was going nowhere, but I was like, “This makes sense, I just got to find the right way to do it.” And then, by God’s grace, your name came up, and I was like, “Well, let’s look into this, and watch the podcast, these are just regular people. They’re not trying to be flashy, or impress me. It’s just, this is what we do, check it out.”
Daniel Smart:
And, it filled in all the gaps. And so then, I was, okay, let’s do this. Forget the doctorate. I found this on YouTube, and so we’re going to do it. So, yeah. We started, the first one we did was, we made quite a bit. So, after that, it was just like, “Yeah, we can do this.”
Steven Butala:
Well, I’ll tell you what a stroke of luck that COVID, and this Detroit thing happened all at the same time for you. Because, I would’ve done a free consulting call, to talk you out of that.
Daniel Smart:
Yeah. Well, it’s completely out of my… I’m not a contractor. I don’t know. I wear a white coat, and I talk to diabetes patients all day, but I know like, “Okay, people make money in real estate.”
Daniel Smart:
What I’m doing isn’t working. Lord, what are we supposed to do? And, it’s just like, God’s grace, that everything lined up, and we found you, and it all worked out great.
Jill K DeWit:
That’s so sweet.
Steven Butala:
We’re having some drainage plumbing issues, in our primary residence right now. And, it’s taken a strange twist, but it’ll all be fine. But, the entire process I’m thinking, what if I own a trailer park that’s not a septic system? That, you know, it’s the only…
Steven Butala:
The way only way that I think rentals really work, are is if you have like 60,000 units, and a national management company. And so, you as the owner, no one even knows who you are, or does. They certainly don’t have your phone number.
Steven Butala:
And then, all you do is work on capitalization. Either buy, doing acquisitions, or sales, or restructuring capital. That’s the only way that I can think that a rental portfolio would work. But, [inaudible 00:11:08] not dealing with the septic system, I’ll tell you that.
Jill K DeWit:
It’s kind of funny.
Daniel Smart:
Just doesn’t fit. Before, I was flipping board games on eBay. To be honest, it was like, “I got to figure out something, flipping board games on eBay.” So I’m like, “I like board games.”
Daniel Smart:
I learned sometimes your time is more valuable, than the five bucks you’re going to get off of this thing. But yeah, and that’s part of why land. I love it, because it’s rentals, and dealing with all the septic, and tenants, and all that. It just sounds nauseating to me.
Steven Butala:
I got to tell you, Dan, you fit the [Atlantic 00:11:50] Academy profile perfectly. You’ve…
Jill K DeWit:
I was thinking the same thing.
Steven Butala:
You’ve sold stuff online. I don’t care how menial it is. So, you understand…
Jill K DeWit:
Running a business. [crosstalk 00:11:59]
Steven Butala:
Yeah, and running an online business, because that’s really what this is. And so, it was a pleasure to have you in Career Path. So, I guess, my real question is, it’s either there are certain people that… Which is why I wanted to have you on the show.
Steven Butala:
There are certain people where the switch flips in your head, and you get it, and you’re successful. But, for many people, that’s just not the case. What do you think it is? What is it about you that made this work?
Daniel Smart:
Well, I mean, we’ve been going through this. So, my wife, and I are together, but we’ve got four kids. So, she is doing one half of this massive job that we’re doing, and I’m kind of doing this easier part. But, we’ve been very prayerful, and just like, “Okay, this is not about us. This is just, we’re going to do this right.”
Daniel Smart:
You got to be content with 50% of the information. And, I think, as a pharmacist, we’re okay with that. Like, “Okay, we have 50, or 60% of the information. We’re about that confident. We’re going to use our judgment. What’s the worst case scenario? If I pay $5,000 for this property, can I afford to lose that? Yeah. Am I going to? Probably not, I’ll probably make money on it. Is this the best place to send mail? I think so, but maybe not, but what’s the worst that could happen? I get nothing.” Which has happened often.
Daniel Smart:
And, that’s the funny thing, you know. We talk about all the good ones, and the really cool properties. Or, ones we made money on, but there’s a lot of mailers I didn’t make anything on. And, a lot of it was, because I didn’t call enough people back, or I didn’t put enough time into pricing. Or, I just got lazy somehow, or the market was too hot.
Daniel Smart:
There was all kinds of reasons, but don’t worry about things. Stop caring about like, “Okay. Yep. I offended that whole county. They all hate me now. I cannot drive through Colorado any anymore.”
Jill K DeWit:
Exactly.
Daniel Smart:
It’s just…
Steven Butala:
I’m doing a mailer right now. And, this morning, I just woke up, and said, “You know what? I’m going to double the size of this right now. Let’s just cut to the chase.” And, everybody involved, Jill’s the first one saying thank you. Let’s just [crosstalk 00:14:35] hit it.
Jill K DeWit:
Rip the bandaid off. Go for it. I love that, but that’s true. You have to not get too emotionally attached to properties. See them as a line item. You just have to trust your gut too. Like you said, “I got 50%, or more of the information. I’m feeling good about it. I’m going with it, and I’m not paying so much it’s going to break the bank. So, it’s going to work out okay.” That’s all.
Jill K DeWit:
And then, the more you do that, the more experience you get. Then you’re fearless, but you’re also making great decisions along the way. When I feel good about it, I just go for it, and I don’t look back. And, I’m like knocking on this desk here. Done just great.
Daniel Smart:
Yeah. There’s always that… Every mailer it’s like, “Oh man, did I mess this up?” But then, it ends up fine. Worst case. Well, worst case I buy some bad properties, but that’s because I tried to make something out of nothing. Which I have done.
Daniel Smart:
There was 1, 2 properties probably, that we shouldn’t have bought. We didn’t lose the money on them, but we learned a lot. And, it’s usually access. Trying to like, “I sent this mail, I sent 5,000 units. I got to get something out of this.” And then, you know, probably shouldn’t have bought that one.
Daniel Smart:
But yeah, the other half is talking to people. I can price things perfectly. I can spend a month pricing this mailer. And, if I’m not talking to people, it doesn’t matter. Or, I can totally mess it up. I mean, that first mailer where I sent out the assessed value, $300 joke offers. We bought one property.
Jill K DeWit:
There you go.
Daniel Smart:
But, we still have it. We’re actually keeping that one.
Jill K DeWit:
Oh, that’s awesome.
Daniel Smart:
It was the neighbor. He sold his neighboring parcel, just because, I don’t know. He talked to me, and he’s like, “Yeah, Dan, you’re a normal guy. I don’t want to sell to the neighbors. They want to buy it. But yeah, I’ll sell it to you.”
Jill K DeWit:
That’s great. I’d love that.
Steven Butala:
I really think that’s what you have going for you, by the way. Because, I just think that you’re a regular guy, and that’s who everybody wants to sell their property to.
Jill K DeWit:
True.
Steven Butala:
I mean, you might not be a regular guy. But, you might have spent 45 minutes on your hair this morning. I don’t know, but you look like a regular guy.
Daniel Smart:
Nope. I get my hair cut about once a year, when I am forced to. It’s one of those things. What do you spend money, and time on? My clothes, my hair, nope.
Jill K DeWit:
Oh. Back off girls, he’s taken.
Steven Butala:
How often do you go, and buy yourself new underwear, Dan?
Jill K DeWit:
Yes.
Daniel Smart:
Oh, that’s overdue.
Jill K DeWit:
That’s great.
Steven Butala:
[crosstalk 00:17:39] I think Land Academy members want to know this stuff.
Jill K DeWit:
Yeah.
Daniel Smart:
Well yeah. I’m not. I mean, who cares? Like [crosstalk 00:17:50]
Jill K DeWit:
That’s awesome. That’s so good.
Steven Butala:
So, can you give us some raw numbers? You started a year ago. How many deals did you do last year? How many deals you think you’ll do this year? Whatever you’re comfortable with sharing.
Daniel Smart:
Last year, we did about one, or two a month on average. And, we’ll probably this year do about two. Well, as of right now, about two a month. Trying to ramp things up a little bit, which I always say. But, trying to ramp things up a little bit, or even go back to some areas. So, we might do a little bit more.
Daniel Smart:
Last year, we did a ton at the end of the year, but I think that’s just because, I wasn’t as afraid to talk to people, and more comfortable. Because, I realized, you know, the people that are selling, they don’t care either. Either they don’t care, or there’s some situation, or they talk to me, and they’re like, “Oh you’re just, it’s you and your wife. Oh, you’re not like some big company. Well sure. That’s fine.”
Daniel Smart:
So, I quit my job a lot sooner than you would have recommended. But, we were doing okay, and I figured, if this is going to work, then we’ll be great. And, if not, well then we’ll do something else.
Steven Butala:
Are you guys both pharmacists?
Daniel Smart:
Yes, we are.
Steven Butala:
That’s such a nice confidence. We can always go back to doing that, and make pretty good money, right?
Daniel Smart:
Right. And, that’s true. We have that, and I mean, we’ll be paying off our student loans still forever, or maybe not. Because, we’ll sell some land, and then we’ll be able to pay [up 00:19:36].
Jill K DeWit:
What’s your average? What’s your normal deal? Buy for what, sell for what?
Daniel Smart:
On. So, we have kind of a sweet spot. It’s not the bigger properties, and it’s not the tiny ones. So, maybe buy for five to 25, sell for 20 to 60. Sometimes a little more, but it’s just kind of the sweet spot.
Daniel Smart:
There’s a lot of buyers, and I’m selling to someone like myself really. So, I kind of know what people are looking for. We do just the rural, vacant land right now, just because that’s what I like. It’s just more exciting.
Jill K DeWit:
Me, too.
Steven Butala:
Yeah. Me, too.
Daniel Smart:
So, I wouldn’t turn down something else, but…
Jill K DeWit:
So, you’re doing like an average of two a month, doing like 20 to 50,000 a month. Not working that hard, is kind of what I’m hearing.
Steven Butala:
Well, I just did the math. If you net 20,000 average, you 24 deals a year, or even 20. It’s four, or $500,000 a year net. It’s your first or second year. This thing doesn’t kick in for most people, really kick in, until the third year.
Steven Butala:
The third year is where we’re getting reports back from Career Path members. Just like you, saying, “I get it. We have made half a million bucks, but I’d really like to make four, or 5 million bucks.
Steven Butala:
We’ve got a guiding career path, right now, at 7 million. So, you’re ready. You’re right at that point where… What are your plans, too? Or, do you care? Is half a million bucks a year, good enough?
Daniel Smart:
You know, that’s… So, we’re behind, as far as paying our student loans, and retirement. We’re just kind of starting from negative, because of the education cost, and just the jobs we have had. There was no future retirement. There’s different seasons of life. And, we have college student, and infant. So, we are busy [crosstalk 00:21:54]…
Jill K DeWit:
Four kids, that takes a lot of money, right there too.
Daniel Smart:
Yeah. College, and diapers, and baseball, and soccer games. So, the focus right now, is just maximizing our time with our kids, and our family. Getting the 12 years of deferred maintenance on our house, back up to… Like, that’s the truth.
Jill K DeWit:
I love this.
Daniel Smart:
So, my goal is not to make more money, it’s to spend less time on the things that don’t matter, which Land Academy Career Path have helped tremendously. I’ve simplified things so much. It’s just crazy with the website, and with the phones, and with everything. How much time I spend on mailers, the scrubbing. I don’t hardly scrub anything out anymore. It’s like, “Just send it.”
Steven Butala:
There’s a section in our membership discord, that says content suggestions. And, somebody just put in there, and we’re going to record a show, on Thursday to air next week, called, ‘A day in the life of a professional land investor.’ So I started taking notes, because we’re going to record it on Thursday. And, I’m like, “We don’t really do anything.”
Daniel Smart:
That’s the most boring show, a two minute show.
Jill K DeWit:
Exactly.
Steven Butala:
I do. You know, my hobby is to find new markets, or find hidden markets in the markets we’re already in. Like, go a block over, and price it a little differently, or whatever. And, that takes, two hours a week. And then…
Jill K DeWit:
I seek out my transaction coordinator, once a week. Just to make sure she’s okay, and happy, because we don’t need to talk.
Steven Butala:
Once in a while, Jill comes to me, usually Friday, and she’s got that guilt look in her eye. Like, “I’m going to go get a massage,” and it’s 14:30. I’m like, “What?” This is going on for years now.
Jill K DeWit:
I do.
Steven Butala:
“You don’t need my permission. We do okay. Please go get a massage, and a manicure, and a pedicure, whatever you want. And, you don’t even need to come back.” But, she keeps coming back, and keeps asking me. I think it’s going to be fine.
Jill K DeWit:
Thank you. I know. [crosstalk 00:24:14]
Daniel Smart:
Yeah. I don’t work, not much. In the beginning though. I mean, I spent a lot of time. Making sure I knew how to do it. It’s just, [crosstalk 00:24:25]
Steven Butala:
That’s really what the show’s about. It’s that first, you tell me what you did, what your experience was, but those first two months are intense. And, really the first year. [crosstalk 00:24:36].
Steven Butala:
First year you got to prove it to yourself, you can’t just take everybody’s word for it. But, once you’ve got four, or five properties under your belt, and you realize it’s not luck, that it actually is repeatable, and sustainable. Then, it’s like, “Okay.” Then I think, honestly you probably could do this whole thing in four, or five hours a week.
Jill K DeWit:
Totally.
Daniel Smart:
Yeah. In the beginning, I mean, I was working, helping the sports, leading a youth group. So, it was 10:00 PM, 10 to 1:00 AM. I’m listening to videos, and scrubbing data, and trying to figure it out. It would take me weeks, because I only had a certain amount of hours. And, we talk about deal flow, and making sure you’re getting stuff out.
Daniel Smart:
But, in the beginning, it’s like, “Well, I can’t really do that. I just going to make sure I send enough mail. I’m going to send 3000 units, not 500, because that’s not going to do anything. And then, just do it as I can in the beginning. And, that’s okay.” So, that’s what I did. And, you get a deal, or two, and like, “Okay.” Then once you get a couple deals, and it’s like, “Okay, well now, I am losing money if I don’t put in the time.”
Daniel Smart:
So then, it’s the decision. Okay. Well, now I got to spend more time. And, there’s that between place, where I’ve got the 9 to 5, which I’m not really sure why I’m still going. And then, I got this [plan 00:26:03] stuff. That’s really going to make me more money, if I can put more time into it.
Daniel Smart:
And then, once I made that switch, then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to learn pricing.” So, I did it all manually, writing each number from Zillow. Pages, and pages, and that took forever, but I could do it. I’m like, “Okay, so now I know how to do it. So now, let’s try the web scraping. Okay, cool. That saved me 40 hours. Okay. Sweet.”
Jill K DeWit:
Yep.
Daniel Smart:
So, that kind of thing. So, once you get comfortable with it, you’re like, “Okay, now I know how to do it. Now, I’m going to make it a little more efficient.” You don’t have to start, that’s the thing. In the very beginning, I was thinking, I got to have the fanciest website. I’ve got to have the fanciest phone. I’ve got to have this elaborate script, and price it perfectly, at this percent, and no.
Daniel Smart:
Do what you can. Get it started, and then you become more comfortable. It’s like anything. I mean, as a pharmacist, first day in the pharmacy, you’re like, “I’m going to kill someone. I don’t know all the medications.” And then, after a year, you’re like, “Yeah, I know where to look.”
Daniel Smart:
That’s the thing. You learn where to look things up, and who you can ask, and Land Academy. I know where to look stuff up, and I know who to ask. It’s there. Everyone’s right there.
Steven Butala:
So, you sailed right through stage three. Stage three, for me is making this kind of your own. Stage one, is just learning, and totally out of your comfort zone. Stage two, is like replicating what we say. Just doing it our way, just to prove it to yourself. Stage three, I think is making it your own. Stage four, is making a ton of money doing it your own way. And then, stage five is kind of like institutionalization.
Steven Butala:
And so, if you can make it past three where you’re starting to make stuff your own, after you’ve tested it our way. I guess, that’s my next question. Is there anything that you really had to veer from, the basic thing that Land Academy is all about, to make it your own, to be successful?
Daniel Smart:
No. I mean, I stick… So, there’s things you should do your way, and there’s things that you should not do your way. I’m a very out of the box person, sometimes to a fault, where my wife is more like in the box, I’m out of the box. So, she’s like, “Well, why didn’t you just do it this easy way?” I’m like, “Oh, the easy way. Yeah. The in the box way. I should have done that, instead of this whole crazy way.”
Daniel Smart:
But yeah, I mean, I try to stick to the Land Academy way, but then there’s the little areas that I know. This county, I know pretty well. So maybe, I’m going to price it a little differently, or word my letter slightly different, or talk to people a little bit differently. But, I try not to veer too much, because whenever I do that… I try to do something crazy in some state, far away. I’ve done deals, but I’ve done much better when I learn the area better, and I’ve talked to people.
Daniel Smart:
The first mailer is more information gathering. We try to get people off the phone a lot of times, if they’re not going to be a seller, but sometimes people will tell you a lot. So, I’ve found out all kinds of crazy stuff about the area, or the Wells, or the treasurer, or the sheriff. They’re like, “Oh, you probably don’t want to hear about this.” I’m like, “Oh no. Yeah, [crosstalk 00:29:38] Yeah, shoot out.” You know, I want to know.
Daniel Smart:
So, you find out a lot, and then people are like, “Are you sure you’re not from around here?” Like, “Nope, not from around there, but…”
Steven Butala:
I really enjoy that part of this business, and I didn’t in the beginning. But, the markets that we’re in, Jill, and I both get to know everybody, or as much as we can. Whether it’s the people at the county, or just the people that work at the gas station. It’s a lot of fun, actually.
Daniel Smart:
It is. And, you know…
Steven Butala:
This will make you feel better, I’ll tell you what. I, as far as not reading the directions, and just being a man. Men have not been reading directions since there was directions. So, I just had a RV tech… We have a new RV, and we couldn’t get any hot water out of it.
Steven Butala:
And so, after about spending two hours out there, he said, “Come take a look at this with me. You need to make sure that your propane’s on. If you expect to get some hot water.” And so, it’s full blown, Steve error, full blown. With my tail between my legs, trying to make a joke, blushing. So…
Jill K DeWit:
How much did that cost, by the way? [crosstalk 00:30:52] To turn on your propane, Ding Dong.
Steven Butala:
And, make me look like an idiot.
Daniel Smart:
Hey, stuff like that happens. [crosstalk 00:31:03]. That’s fine.
Steven Butala:
I don’t need an RV tech to make me look like an idiot. I can do that.
Jill K DeWit:
Great. That’s fine.
Steven Butala:
Well, I’m really glad that you made this work. Did you ask your wife to come out on the show, or is she’s standing there right behind you, and she’s laughing at you?
Daniel Smart:
No, baby is napping. So, this actually, usually you would see me in the garage. When I do these Zoom, with the weekly calls, and during Career Path. I was in the garage. People ask me, “Are you in a storage closet?” But, this, I mean…
Daniel Smart:
We’ve got a lot going on in the house, and I don’t have a real designated office space. So, it’s the couch, or the garage, or the truck. So, no. Baby’s sleeping. She is very active. She’s the one telling me, “Dan, you need to price these a little higher.” And, she’s always right. Some of them we’ve sold like immediately. She’s like, “I’m not going to say, I told you so. I support you, but…”
Daniel Smart:
Like, “Yep. I know.”
Jill K DeWit:
That’s good.
Daniel Smart:
Working on that.
Steven Butala:
We go endlessly back, and forth on that, Jill, and I. I try to price them higher, she tries to price them lower, and then the next one, we change roles.
Jill K DeWit:
That’s true.
Steven Butala:
It’s just how it is.
Jill K DeWit:
That’s true. Yeah. It’s all over the place.
Steven Butala:
Dan Smart. It was a pleasure talking to you. I’m really glad that the Land Academy System seems to be working for you. It was a wonderful time to have you along with us, on the last Career Path.
Daniel Smart:
It’s a blast.
Steven Butala:
And, I hope we can do this again. I hope like, maybe 60, 90 days we can call you, and see where you are in your career, then?
Jill K DeWit:
Check in, and yep. See how the kids are doing.
Daniel Smart:
Oh yeah. Sounds great.
Steven Butala:
See if your wife lets you in the house anymore.
Jill K DeWit:
That’s right. I love it.
Steven Butala:
Thanks Dan. We’ll talk to you soon.
Daniel Smart:
Thank you.
Jill K DeWit:
Take care.
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